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The Leading Linux Desktop Platform Issues Of 2018

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  • The Leading Linux Desktop Platform Issues Of 2018

    Phoronix: The Leading Linux Desktop Platform Issues Of 2018

    Linux developer Simon Peter who has spent years working on application standards like AppImage and Klik recently presented on what he believes are the 2018 Desktop Linux Platform Issues and the unfortunate continually moving target of "the year of the Linux desktop" that never materializes...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...op-Issues-2018

  • #2
    Hundreds of distributions causing further fragmenting of the already small (compared to macOS and Windows) user-base as well as "tens" of desktops.
    This is a Linux ecosystem feature.
    If this "problem" is to be solved, I hope the "winning" desktop is not GNOME... Otherwise that would only pave the way to the "Year of the Possibly Horrible Linux Desktop"...

    Linux user-space often breaking and the various library versioning challenges. There's also the different library paths and problems with that across distributions.
    Here is my proposed solution to the problem (split userspace in 2 parts: a system one and a user one).

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    • #3
      I disagree with him and actually view the "problems" he sees as strengths. Don't like GNOME? You can use KDE. Or XFCE. Or just a window manager for simplicity. I would probably switch to Windows if eeeew GNOME was the only choice. Seriously.

      I also see a large number of packages in a distributions repository as a strength. Run one update command, be it dnf -y update or apt-get update and everything's updated. Similarly, as good as everything I want installed can be with basically the same command. If I have to go to 50 different websites and check if there is a new version and download a file from each and install that to update then... why not just use Windows?

      The primary reason Linux ain't common on people's desktops is that most people will use whatever is pre-installed on their laptop, desktop, phone or tablet and not even change basic things like their web browser (which is why Edge is a success, not a failure, and Bing is actually very profitable). The few people that do take the time to install Linux themselves are doing it for different reasons so having a choice between distributions and desktops does matter. Removing the reasons people make the switch isn't going to make more people switch...

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      • #4
        Originally posted by xiando View Post
        I also see a large number of packages in a distributions repository as a strength. Run one update command, be it dnf -y update or apt-get update and everything's updated. Similarly, as good as everything I want installed can be with basically the same command. If I have to go to 50 different websites and check if there is a new version and download a file from each and install that to update then... why not just use Windows?
        What if you dislike an update to some application (it happened a few times to me) and wish to remain on that version? There is a chance it will break after the upgrade...

        By the way, you forgot about Mac and the Mac App Store (they don't provide system libraries, so things won't break).

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        • #5
          Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
          What if you dislike an update to some application (it happened a few times to me) and wish to remain on that version? There is a chance it will break after the upgrade...
          Then exclude that package from updates:

          Pacman:
          pacman -Syu --ignore <pkg>
          (or edit pacman.conf to make it "permanent")

          Apt:
          apt-mark hold <pkg>
          apt-get update

          I'm sure other package managers have that ability easily available as well. Most people want their packages to get updates (for security, performance, and other improvements). That's why packages that you don't want updated are the *exception*, rather than the rule.


          Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
          By the way, you forgot about Mac and the Mac App Store (they don't provide system libraries, so things won't break).
          In Linux, that's what dependencies are for...common libraries used by many applications.

          Generally speaking, with Apple, sure things won't break (usually), but you're also much more limited due to the fact that it is a walled garden. This also means they can up the price on their products just because you *have* to use other Apple products for things to work properly. They also have substantially reduced compatibility: only supporting hardware they ship with the OS, and only supporting that hardware on that version of the OS (actively preventing users from using newer OS on older hardware, or vice-versa)
          Last edited by lectrode; 10-06-2018, 04:29 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by xiando View Post
            I disagree with him and actually view the "problems" he sees as strengths. Don't like GNOME? You can use KDE. Or XFCE. Or just a window manager for simplicity. I would probably switch to Windows if eeeew GNOME was the only choice....
            I guess thats not what he means. A certain level of choice (distro, DE..) is nice and makes sense. BUT: There (see https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity) are over 300 distros available - AND some of them have DE-flavors, which are not even counted, (Letter-of-choice)Ubuntu-like, as independent distros (Manjaro f.i. is one distro, but it has 4 official DEs plus 9 community DE-variants). Boy oh boy, isn't that really a bit too much?
            Last edited by sverris; 10-06-2018, 04:15 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by lectrode View Post

              Then exclude that package from updates:

              Pacman:
              pacman -Syu --ignore <pkg>
              (or edit pacman.conf to make it "permanent")

              Apt:
              apt-mark hold <pkg>
              apt-get update

              I'm sure other package managers have that ability easily available as well. Most people want their packages to get updates (for security, performance, and other improvements). That's why packages that you don't want updated are the *exception*, rather than the rule.




              In Linux, that's what dependencies are for...common libraries used by many applications.
              I mean, I know how to ignore an upgrade for a certain package, but often I hit situations in where ignoring the package upgrade results in the application breaking in the next upgrade due to some library being not present...

              Comment


              • #8
                I think its rich in irony for a guy that developed the shitty Appimage complains about fragmentation when he won't give up Appumage and work on Flatpak. Flatpak is the future. It's already won that horse race with Snap a distant second.

                And Gnome practically has won the corporate Linux desktop race as well. Between Red Hat and derivatives and Ubuntu installations in the real world and not Haxor's custom install at the local pizza joint Gnome is for all intents and purposes the face of Linux. I've even had strangers looking at my bog standard Gnome based laptop and ask me was that some version of Chrome OS. Others asked me about MacOS. So the recognition and comfort level a new user has with Gnome is already baked in if they already have MacOS or Chrome OS experience. All 5 of my kids INSTANTLY took a liking and were proficient in Gnome use once I introduced them to it simply because of this fact.

                Linux will NEVER escape it's hacky, geek perception simply because that's its roots and the nature of its user base. But we WILL see continued slow but steady adoption in the workplace which leads to home use (like Windows all those years ago) with the corporate adoption of Gnome, Flatpak, Red Hat and Ubuntu.

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                • #9
                  Talking like a racist, more DE's is better, people have a choice, even if the main focus is gnome right now

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jumbotron View Post
                    I think its rich in irony for a guy that developed the shitty Appimage complains about fragmentation when he won't give up Appumage and work on Flatpak. Flatpak is the future. It's already won that horse race with Snap a distant second.

                    And Gnome practically has won the corporate Linux desktop race as well. Between Red Hat and derivatives and Ubuntu installations in the real world and not Haxor's custom install at the local pizza joint Gnome is for all intents and purposes the face of Linux. I've even had strangers looking at my bog standard Gnome based laptop and ask me was that some version of Chrome OS. Others asked me about MacOS. So the recognition and comfort level a new user has with Gnome is already baked in if they already have MacOS or Chrome OS experience. All 5 of my kids INSTANTLY took a liking and were proficient in Gnome use once I introduced them to it simply because of this fact.

                    Linux will NEVER escape it's hacky, geek perception simply because that's its roots and the nature of its user base. But we WILL see continued slow but steady adoption in the workplace which leads to home use (like Windows all those years ago) with the corporate adoption of Gnome, Flatpak, Red Hat and Ubuntu.
                    He has a point about applications being portable and installable to other mediums. You can in theory put a flatpak on another drive but its not exposed in a friendly way.

                    Comment

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