Mozilla Begins Slowly Enabling WebRender For Some Users

[pal666]

If they want a solid graphics stack to test this on, then why don't they test it on macOS first? I'm no fan of macOS, but a least they have a small set of supported graphics hardware with solid drivers, so it should be better for testing than Windows.

do you guys share same dealer ?

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-OpenGL-poorly-supported-on-Mac-OS-X

[duby229]

I could see the argument that the Nvidia blob had parity back then (for the most part), but, seriously, the AMD blob was terrible, and mesa, while stable-ish, was still stuck at OpenGL3.1 for the majority of the year until 10 came out at the end adding 3.3 support (the spec already being at 4.3/4.4 in 2013).

And yet in 2013 the big game ports hadn't been made yet and those same drivers were capable of running everything that was capable of running at the time. We aren't talking about magic here, r600 was already in fantastic condition at that time and was in fact incredibly stable. Radeonsi was still in development and choosing that hardware was the wrong choice at that time. As I said on linux distributions you have to choose hardware that is already well supported and r600 certainly was. And although I'm not an Intel fan by any means they too had a fully capable and stable driver at that point.

[Hi-Angel]

"Providing links" means nothing if said links are irrelevant or the argument you are trying to make is non sequitur from said links...

Okay, then, do you realize your statement is irrelevant to what you're quoting? Like, I provided links, and I provided explanation as to why they're relevant — and you out of pure air started talking about some links that are non-relevant. Are you talking to me, or to someone else?

Also i didn't insult you.

Oh, sure, it was probably someone else who called me a linux zealot for no reason. Are you perhaps actually talking to someone else, am I hindering to your discussion?

I don't need to provide a "link". You can go to MESA site yourself, get a 2013 version, compile it, and try to run with it modern games, like Tomb Raider (2013) for example... You realize Flatout 2 was a pretty ancient game by 2013 standards, don't you?

I am not trying to "win" anything here. I am just stating the facts. You are the one who goes "zealot mode" trying to convince us that the Linux graphics stack is so awesome and Windows are behind...

Do you really think somebody gonna spend a few hours of their life just to check your arguments? It is your argument, so how about you proving them?

I'm fine if you record for me a screencast, where you went for Mesa 2013 sources, built them, and tested. Here's a tip: you don't even need to restart a PC (and hence to stop a screencast) you can make an app to use the built Mesa with LD_LIBRARY_PATH and LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH variables. Go ahead, I'll be waiting.

[bosjc]

Ok let's talk about the graphics stack then.... Desktop performance, specifically xrender. Video acceleration, specifically vaapi. 3d performance, specificaly openGL... In -ALL- of these areas Linux has dominated in both overall performance and compliance with standards. If you don't believe it then benchmark against -any- other OS and see it for yourself. Facts whether you like them or not. And all of these facts have been in place since about 2012 roughly. The -only- issue was whether -you- bought hardware before it was supported well enough.

EDIT: Wine has -never- had good compatibility and it still doesn't and there still is no indication that it ever will. I still have hope in the Vulkan-DX layers, but it's fading.... Perhaps what you're really compaining about is wine?

EDIT: And BTW, if you did run a 2013 vesion of mesa on a card that was already well supported in that version of mesa, it would actually run quite well indeed. On Linux you -HAVE- to choose hardware that is -already- well supported. If you don't, then it's your own damn fault that you chose hardware that wasn't already well supported.

I could see the argument that the Nvidia blob had parity back then (for the most part), but, seriously, the AMD blob was terrible, and mesa, while stable-ish, was still stuck at OpenGL3.1 for the majority of the year until 10 came out at the end adding 3.3 support (the spec already being at 4.3/4.4 in 2013).

[duby229]

Don't go full Linux-zealot mode on me pal. First of all, the keyword here is "graphics STACK", not just MESA driver. Second, back in 2013 MESA was at a very, very poor state, regarding API parity, speed, and feature support. Yes MESA even back then had some benefits, like better standard compliance, but let us not fool ourselves, we couldn't play the vast majority of modern 3D games on MESA back then. If you don't believe me, try running modern games using a 2013 version of MESA, see how that works out for you.

Believing BLATANT LIES about GNU/Linux, won't make the Linux desktop better. Actually acknowledging the situation, comming to terms with it, and trying to improve it, will.

Ok let's talk about the graphics stack then.... Desktop performance, specifically xrender. Video acceleration, specifically vaapi. 3d performance, specificaly openGL... In -ALL- of these areas Linux has dominated in both overall performance and compliance with standards. If you don't believe it then benchmark against -any- other OS and see it for yourself. Facts whether you like them or not. And all of these facts have been in place since about 2012 roughly. The -only- issue was whether -you- bought hardware before it was supported well enough.

EDIT: Wine has -never- had good compatibility and it still doesn't and there still is no indication that it ever will. I still have hope in the Vulkan-DX layers, but it's fading.... Perhaps what you're really compaining about is wine?

EDIT: And BTW, if you did run a 2013 vesion of mesa on a card that was already well supported in that version of mesa, it would actually run quite well indeed. On Linux you -HAVE- to choose hardware that is -already- well supported. If you don't, then it's your own damn fault that you chose hardware that wasn't already well supported.

[ms178]

And then they might finally make hw video acceleration on linux a reality

Any news on that front would be more than overdue! It is 2018, AV1 is about to take over the video streaming world soon enough, but we can't even get hw accelerated video on Firefox and Chrome on H.264! Sorry for my rant, but I don't get it why this item is not higher on the priority list of the developers involved with this. A great Linux desktop experience on Notebooks would be awesome to have. Unfortunately this blocks mobile usage quite a bit. Fortunately, Tumbleweed and other distros have a patched Chromium available to get it to work at least on VA-API. But I don't get it either why these patches haven't made it into upstream yet.

[Weasel]

If they want a solid graphics stack to test this on, then why don't they test it on macOS first? I'm no fan of macOS, but a least they have a small set of supported graphics hardware with solid drivers, so it should be better for testing than Windows.

Yeah I heard their OpenGL drivers are especially excellent.

[Vistaus]

its basically only gonna be for Windows, the Graphics stack on windows is far better than Linux will ever be, so Mozilla enabling WR by Default on Linux will take a lot longer i would think.

If they want a solid graphics stack to test this on, then why don't they test it on macOS first? I'm no fan of macOS, but a least they have a small set of supported graphics hardware with solid drivers, so it should be better for testing than Windows.

[TemplarGR]

Listen, dude, I provided you with links, you replied with insults and aggression — sure a way to win a discussion. Back in 2013 I was a newbie to GNU/Linux, and I've no idea what's the state was in general — judging by the Dolphin devs' post that I linked, it was very well.

My only interesting personal experience from 2013-2014 was that Flatout 2 on Windows was lagging down to 3-5 FPS when there was a smoke around; but worked very well on Ubuntu with wine and r600g driver (though it was a bit slower due to wine).

"Providing links" means nothing if said links are irrelevant or the argument you are trying to make is non sequitur from said links... Also i didn't insult you.

I don't need to provide a "link". You can go to MESA site yourself, get a 2013 version, compile it, and try to run with it modern games, like Tomb Raider (2013) for example... You realize Flatout 2 was a pretty ancient game by 2013 standards, don't you?

I am not trying to "win" anything here. I am just stating the facts. You are the one who goes "zealot mode" trying to convince us that the Linux graphics stack is so awesome and Windows are behind...

[Hi-Angel]

Don't go full Linux-zealot mode on me pal. First of all, the keyword here is "graphics STACK", not just MESA driver. Second, back in 2013 MESA was at a very, very poor state, regarding API parity, speed, and feature support. Yes MESA even back then had some benefits, like better standard compliance, but let us not fool ourselves, we couldn't play the vast majority of modern 3D games on MESA back then. If you don't believe me, try running modern games using a 2013 version of MESA, see how that works out for you.

Believing BLATANT LIES about GNU/Linux, won't make the Linux desktop better. Actually acknowledging the situation, comming to terms with it, and trying to improve it, will.

Listen, dude, I provided you with links, you replied with insults and aggression — sure a way to win a discussion. Back in 2013 I was a newbie to GNU/Linux, and I've no idea what's the state was in general — judging by the Dolphin devs' post that I linked, it was very well.

My only interesting personal experience from 2013-2014 was that Flatout 2 on Windows was lagging down to 3-5 FPS when there was a smoke around; but worked very well on Ubuntu with wine and r600g driver (though it was a bit slower due to wine).