Flatpak Gets New FreeDesktop SDK 18.08 Runtime

[fuzz]

Splitting front end and back end in a single final product in marketing terms means incomplete job and nothing else. It's a bad job, plain and simple. You can even be delivering the cure for cancer that still no more than 1% tops of the possible clients would even consider looking at it.

By your logic, developers should stop making REST and GraphQL APIs . Marketing and sales teams don't need to know implementation details.

[nanonyme]

I hope that applications like Steam and Blender move to that runtime fast... Mesa is quite old in the 1.6 runtime (18.0.4). And I hope that Mesa gets updated more regualary... sad to see that NVidia drivers are getting way more love than Mesa ones.

Steam just did

[pemartins]

starshipeleven reading your answers is how one understands the phenomenon of Linux having a better basic product, being free and having only 1% or so of the market. When we try to fight and/or deny reality we just get ran over by it. Just because you have strong beliefs in the current FOSS system does not mean that there could not be a better way and that you are doing things right and that reality is as you wish it was. And then you look at the global market share and it shows the reality as it is, which clearly states that there must be a better way because it is not working fine. Whether one chooses to do a analysis/introspection to change and evolve, or one chooses to deny reality, that's one's choice.
Please always keep this statement with you: "don't try to be right, try instead to be rich".

Marketing and sales teams don't need to know implementation details.

Marketing and sales teams need to know the products from inside out. If you don't know a product well and don't believe in it you won't be able to sell it. This is basic marketing and sales.
The sales person does not need to be able to design and assemble a pipe in the product, but has to know that that pipe exists and has to know why that pipe exists.

Otherwise you'll have episodes like that one in which Blackberry's CEO decided to do an interview presentation of the Blackberry Priv: you have a CEO trying to promote the product that could save his company by not knowing how to use it, not knowing how to even turn it on and by saying that "it has Google"...
Yeah the result was that shortly after Blackberry stopped making phones and now just rents/lends/sells/gives/whatever the Blackberry name for other to use in phones they make.

[starshipeleven]

starshipeleven reading your answers is how one understands the phenomenon of Linux having a better basic product, being free and having only 1% or so of the market.

Better product for who? To do what? On what scale? Give a Ubuntu disk to some random person and tell them to "install" it in their PC. 99% won't understand what you want them to do.

Until you insist in using nonsense assumptions in your reasoning, you won't understand how the world works.

Just because you have strong beliefs in the current FOSS system

FOSS never even mattered one bit in the discussion. The discussion was about how wrong were your "ideas" about how someone should throw away their time and money to add support to Android applications with little chances of ever seeing return of the investment, and how that would make Linux more interesting for people that does not even care about what an OS is.

And then you look at the global market share and it shows the reality as it is, which clearly states that there must be a better way because it is not working fine.

Yeah, and you are part of the problem. FOSS does not need more dumb ideas born out of ignorance of basic marketing principles, there is already enough of that holding it down.

Marketing and sales teams need to know the products from inside out. If you don't know a product well and don't believe in it you won't be able to sell it. This is basic marketing and sales.
The sales person does not need to be able to design and assemble a pipe in the product, but has to know that that pipe exists and has to know why that pipe exists.

True to an extent. Again, it's a matter of target.
If the marketing people were supposed to deal with people that can understand more than a very general overview of the thing they are selling, yeah they need to have this in-depth knowledge.

And that's a specialized form of salesperson that is both a trained technician/engineer (or at least some highly skilled nerd) AND a salesperson.

But most salespeople are dealing with mass market, or management or any other target that can't really comprehend much of the product anyway (most even struggle to understand how to operate it), so they are fine with some slides detailing very roughly what is going on, as they will rely mostly on other things (looking "trustworthy" or "secure" or talking of money or whatever) to actually sell.

Otherwise you'll have episodes like that one in which Blackberry's CEO decided to do an interview presentation of the Blackberry Priv

That's one case of marketing people talking to skilled audience, and a case where you DO want the specialized hybrid salesperson with technical training.

There is a reason if decent companies have both generic marketing people and contacts with "influencers" aka reviewers that are skilled enough to actually talk and sound convincing to the skilled elite of their markets.

Yeah the result was that shortly after Blackberry stopped making phones and now just rents/lends/sells/gives/whatever the Blackberry name for other to use in phones they make.

No, screwups like that are hilarious but not particularly dangerous per-se.

Blackberry made a ton of mistakes, much like Kodak refusing to switch to digital cameras until it was waay too late to be saved.

[pemartins]

Yes starshipeleven we do not need Android because it's only the most used OS in the world. Why would we need 3 million and 300 thousand applications coming at once with Android when you say we already have about all Linux applications in flathub?... Yeah, who needs an extra 3 million and 300 thousand when he already has 200?
A waste of someone's time and money for sure. Way better to have some more music player and note taking apps, that's where the money is!

You say the only way people could use any operating system is if someone actually installed it for them... Assuming that people cannot install things for themselves if the installation process is easy and only some clicks away while following clear instructions... And then I wonder how Chrome is the most used browser in Windows since it does not come pre-instaled in any Windows release...
Hum, an act of God maybe? Or is it that maybe we are in the click-and-done era and everybody can do anything if clicking is all that it takes? (and not the command line obviously!)

And when someone like me tries to shake things up by stating (obvious) things and bringing new ideas, I'm only "part of the problem" because "FOSS does not need more dumb ideas born out of ignorance of basic marketing principles, there is already enough of that holding it down.". Yeah, 1% or so of market share with a better product at the price of free is the dream!

You can keep on blaming everything and try to put down anyone who brings a new vision, you can keep on saying all is great. But at the end of the day you look at the reality of numbers, and those cruel bastards don't lie.
Don't be afraid of listening to others even if their ideas and concepts trouble yours, most of all there is always a better way of doing anything at all.

[starshipeleven]

Yes starshipeleven we do not need Android because it's only the most used OS in the world.

For the nth time....

Who is going to pay? How do you monetize this large investment? Are you afraid of talking of marketing now that it's going against your "ideas"?

I just keep repeating you why it does not and will never happen. It does not make economic sense to do so, and it is far too complex to do without some economic support.

You say the only way people could use any operating system is if someone actually installed it for them...

Because it's true. Most people don't want to understand computers. It's just a tool and as long as it does what they need they won't want to fuck with it.

Assuming that people cannot install things for themselves if the installation process is easy and only some clicks away while following clear instructions...
....
And then I wonder how Chrome is the most used browser in Windows since it does not come pre-instaled in any Windows release...

installing an OS is as easy as clicking on an icon... yeah right. You have no fucking idea, kid.

And this is for Windows, The Land Where Everything Always Works (tm), as long as it is less than 3 years old anyway.

Have you ever installed linux on random hardware? Tried to install Ubuntu LTS on new devices? Or are you imagining a world where the installation is always simple and painless? Because the real world isn't like this, not even on windows.

And when someone like me tries to shake things up by stating (obvious) things and bringing new ideas,

Yeah, running Android applications on windows is a new idea. We aren't in 2015 anymore, dude. There have been at least 2 failed efforts at pulling it off. And it wasn't because people like you were coming up with "new" ideas 3 years later, but because people like you didn't pay a cent for the development.

Meanwhile, projects like Ubports about keeping Ubuntu Phone kinda alive have been funded and they are operational and at work for their goal since at least a full year. I strongly suspect that they are going to fail eventually, but whatever, they will fail honorably at least.

Ah yes, Ubports is the third project that also aims to have a working Android environment to run Android apps. But it's a "new" idea huh?

Yeah, 1% or so of market share with a better product at the price of free is the dream!

Better on what scale, better by what point of view? Why are you uncapable of seeing things from a different perspective than your own?

For example, Android is plain better for pretty much everything a normal consumer would want to do (and numbers also show this). Hell, it was designed to do that, and it does not have 3 decades of legacy to carry over.

You can keep on blaming everything and try to put down anyone who brings a new vision, you can keep on saying all is great. But at the end of the day you look at the reality of numbers, and those cruel bastards don't lie.
Don't be afraid of listening to others even if their ideas and concepts trouble yours, most of all there is always a better way of doing anything at all.

Really, cut this semi-inspirational crap, you are only making a fool out of yourself.

What you want is just people working for free, to satisfy your childish dreams of world domination. That's not how opensource works. That's not how market strategies work either. You don't aim at market domination for its own sake.

Opensource is companies doing stuff that benefits THEM and then sharing (server-ish stuff), or people doing it for fun (which means relatively small projects).

Words won't change reality. Stop posting bullshit already.