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Lubuntu 18.10 Officially Switching From LXDE To LXQt

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  • #11
    Originally posted by eydee View Post
    Well, the point of LXDE and Lubuntu is being lightweight. Qt is anything but lightweight.
    We use Qt in our embedded products for years...

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    • #12
      Don't worry guys, qt apps written in c++ are always better than apps written in python gtk and apps that emulate gtk behavior (firefox/chrome). Also, from my experience, having both qt and gtk apps adds almost zero overhead comparing to having only one toolkit installed.

      I don't use Lubuntu, but I might take advantage of LXQt's modularity and try a gtk-qt combo for my next setup. I am a bit disappointed from the full-featured desktop environments which seem to take serious time from my laptop's battery without offering much in return. So, I'm thinking something like LXQt with nemo instead of pcmanfm-qt (I prefer it over KDE's dolphin because of gvfs vs kio) and kwin instead of openbox (maybe the devs should switch to kwin by default too, because openbox is really old and unmaintained).

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      • #13
        Originally posted by eydee View Post
        Qt is anything but lightweight.
        If Qt is good enough for fucking microcontrollers without a GPU, it's good enough for a desktop (https://blog.qt.io/blog/2018/05/03/q...ntrollers-mcu/)

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        • #14
          Originally posted by doom_Oo7 View Post

          If Qt is good enough for fucking microcontrollers without a GPU, it's good enough for a desktop (https://blog.qt.io/blog/2018/05/03/q...ntrollers-mcu/)
          I was about to post the same thing. That's Qt running on a 180MHz cortex M4 with 16MB of RAM. It's probably worse than any desktop computer built in the last 2 decades. And it's running the Javascript + QML Qt Quick stuff that people believe is even more 'bloated' than Qt Widgets.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by calc View Post

            LxQT uses a bit more resources but still pretty lightweight.

            Lubuntu 18.04 uses ~ 220MB (LXDE)
            Lubuntu daily uses ~ 290MB (LxQT)
            I think that's a lot, does this include disk cache? Or simply the sum of having 64bit software, pulseaudio, network-manager, whatever is called Ubuntu's update manager, and maybe some background thing I'm missing.
            By the way I'm not doing an anti network-manager etc. diatribe, in fact Lubuntu is great if you need these things. Firefox forces our hand regarding pulseaudio, this is regrettable. But if the low-RAM system you need low footprint for has 2GB RAM, that's not a big problem, I do want pulseaudio and network manager anyhow, where a more raw system is clearly better is with 128-512MB RAM such as Raspberry Pi or some solid as rock desktop based on i440 BX.

            I'm partial to the GTK version of LXDE : for the looks, saving a couple tens MB RAM, and it's better bug fixed and maintained yet with minor new features sometimes.
            LXQt has the potential to support dpi other than 100% which is all that might matter with things like 1080p 13" laptops and the like! I think it's no better for now. But it may pay off by the time we're nearing Lubuntu 20.04, and there's a nice encouragement and exposure to end users in this decision.

            Pcmanfm is a great very fine piece of software, I wish to say that yet another time. Fast Nautilus clone with no dependencies (that also has an "application folder", which you won't need unless you don't have an application launcher or start menu). So you can use it with fluxbox or any raw window manager of your choice.

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            • #16
              Qt is used in Automotive/IoT industries and is most definitely lightweight because it includes everything needed to get the job done without needing outside dependencies.
              It reminded me of Qt Lite project — Qt for any platform, any thing, any size:
              - https://blog.basyskom.com/2017/qt-lite/
              - http://blog.qt.io/blog/2017/05/31/qt-lite-qt-5-9-lts/
              - http://blog.qt.io/blog/2016/08/18/in...hing-any-size/

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              • #17
                Originally posted by eydee View Post
                Well, the point of LXDE and Lubuntu is being lightweight. Qt is anything but lightweight.
                Actually, the reason he switched to Qt is that its memory usage was less than Gtk's and that Gtk3s memory usage was simply horrible. So instead of port to Gtk3, he found he would save memory by porting to Qt. So the Qt switch was in fact, to save RAM.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by grok View Post

                  I think that's a lot, does this include disk cache? Or simply the sum of having 64bit software, pulseaudio, network-manager, whatever is called Ubuntu's update manager, and maybe some background thing I'm missing.
                  By the way I'm not doing an anti network-manager etc. diatribe, in fact Lubuntu is great if you need these things. Firefox forces our hand regarding pulseaudio, this is regrettable. But if the low-RAM system you need low footprint for has 2GB RAM, that's not a big problem, I do want pulseaudio and network manager anyhow, where a more raw system is clearly better is with 128-512MB RAM such as Raspberry Pi or some solid as rock desktop based on i440 BX.

                  I'm partial to the GTK version of LXDE : for the looks, saving a couple tens MB RAM, and it's better bug fixed and maintained yet with minor new features sometimes.
                  LXQt has the potential to support dpi other than 100% which is all that might matter with things like 1080p 13" laptops and the like! I think it's no better for now. But it may pay off by the time we're nearing Lubuntu 20.04, and there's a nice encouragement and exposure to end users in this decision.

                  Pcmanfm is a great very fine piece of software, I wish to say that yet another time. Fast Nautilus clone with no dependencies (that also has an "application folder", which you won't need unless you don't have an application launcher or start menu). So you can use it with fluxbox or any raw window manager of your choice.

                  What triggered the move to Qt was the impeding switch to Gtk3. He found that Gtk3 would eat up far more RAM than Gtk2 that LXDE was based on. So instead of porting to Gtk3, he instead decided to port to Qt and by doing so memory would be saved. The move to Qt was a long term thing for the eventual possibility of Gtk2 discontinuation and the fact Gtk3 is a memory hog.

                  PS I suspect what may be behind high memory usage numbers is memory graphics buffer management and the storing of graphics in RAM. Its hard to imagine how code can consume hundreds of MB, its probably graphics buffers. If you look at the memory usage, i wouldnt be surprised if the code itself has an insignificant impact on RAM usage no matter what toolkit you use, what does is the kinds of graphics buffering its doing. I would say the best thing to do is allow themes which are entirely based on vector graphics and use runtime vector commands to the window system and avoid rastering the UI graphics in the app itself. This should result in the vector graphics going directly to the front buffer (avoiding duplicated storage of rasterized data or storage of rasterized data that is not visible on screen), at least thats how things used to work.

                  many people expect fancy graphics and UI effects like brushed steel look etc but that all consumes more RAM compared to vector graphics like Motif used. If you want to save RAM, motif type vector graphics can save big
                  Last edited by jpg44; 19 May 2018, 10:06 AM.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by CTown View Post
                    Since SVG and CSS are both scriptable, could not a program be made to convert a Kvantum theme to GTK theme or vice-versa? However, with amazing themes like Breeze, Nota, and Ark having versions for both toolkits, I don't think it's worth the effort. Still, that wouldn't solve the difference between the Gnome and KDE design styles (human interface guidelines). To add to that, even if both projects adopted the same style, there wouldn't be a guarantee that developers would follow that style.

                    T.l.d.r.: So, it's probably never going to happen...
                    Could you post a link to Nota? 'Cause I can't seem to find it on OpenDesktop.

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                    • #20
                      I don't really care what my desktop and apps run as toolkit as long as they work and do their job. It's just sad that the desktop integration part still isn't as good as I'd wish it to be. Thanks to GTK by the way. We'll get there some day. Hopefully.

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