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System76 vs. The LVFS Firmware Updating Service

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  • #31
    Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post
    I find that aspect of System76 very strange. They seem to heavily favour nvidia over AMD. I'd expect that any company focused on producing hardware for an operating system with a prominent FOSS culture, would be heavily bias towards AMD.

    I can't be the only FOSS user that would never buy a pre-made system with an nvidia graphics card dependent on the proprietary nvidia driver. I wouldn't even consider it. I'm often encouraging friends to get a GNU/Linux system and I go out of my way to make sure they get AMD or Intel graphics, not nvidia.
    That's because they are rebranding Clevo laptops (like most other companies and OEMs that need relatively short production runs of laptops), and Clevo does not use AMD stuff because they use what is most common.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by sandy8925 View Post
      cybertraveler - Well, unfortunately AMD's GPU drivers are just not as good enough as Intel's and NVIDUA's drivers. There are still few annoying bugs ehre and there, with random GPU hangs, display problems etc. In contrast I've never faced problems with Intel GPU drivers. They're solid and just work.
      Never used Haswell and later I guess?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by timofonic View Post
        I hate Gnome but their stupid decissions and stubborness. I also hate KDE too. Both should collaborate and share more code, instead NIH crap too.
        They already do, where it matters. But you can't ask to merge to very different projects with different goals.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by PackRat View Post
          cybertraveler I want an open source solution to work and it does with most things. If you hear me crying like a baby just remember the baby that cries get's fed first.Ubuntu's Lansape is foss? I need proof got a link for the code?
          It does not work like that in the actual world. You either pay for it or it does not happen (either proprietary or FOSS), none cares about whining. Find a project that works towards your goal or make one, that's how FOSS works.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by timofonic View Post
            Are there a difference? Both companies want to control a market and impose their politics. They are called corporations.
            RedHat isn't imposing shit, a blog post from the lead developer isn't "imposing" anything to anyone.

            Oracle on the other hand...

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            • #36
              Originally posted by PackRat View Post
              cybertraveler I want an open source solution to work and it does with most things. If you hear me crying like a baby just remember the baby that cries get's fed first.Ubuntu's Lansape is foss? I need proof got a link for the code?
              Just so I'm clear: the Landscape solution as a whole costs money and the server part of it might be proprietary. The client part is what matters regarding whether Ubuntu is an Open Source system that you are free to modify and improve, or not. The client part of Landscape is Open Source (GPL):
              https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu.../head:/LICENSE

              That link isn't a complete proof that all the parts of the client are Open Source. I'm 99% sure it is Open Source though. Ubuntu is an Open Source desktop. I've never come across a single piece of pre-installed, proprietary software on an Ubuntu desktop in the 10 years I've been playing around with it. Canonical claim it is an Open Source system: https://www.ubuntu.com/desktop

              Ubuntu is an Open Source operating system.

              Regarding wanting an Open Source solution that works. Right now AMD is absolutely the best performance graphics hardware with Open Source drivers. The drivers aren't perfect. The drivers will continue to improve over time though. This is my experience of Open Source. In general everything gets gradually better over time and support is long lasting.

              AMD users can reasonably expect their hardware to continue to get better support on GNU/Linux for even as much as a decade into the future.

              NVIDIA users should only reasonably expect that their hardware will work the way it does right now on the operating system they're using right now for the tasks they're doing... right now. They cannot reasonably assume that 5 years from now they'll be able to run their hardware on the latest Linux, XOrg and Wayland stacks. They cannot reasonably assume that any game-braking bugs that are found will be ever fixed. This is how it is with proprietary drivers: when the graphics card mfg no longer cares about the hardware because they are not profiting from it, support will diminish. It's worse actually: even while they are making a profit right now, the support can be terrible if you are trying to do something which the vast majority of their customers are not.

              I have zero sympathy for anyone who has any issues with NVIDIA drivers on GNU/Linux when they had already been exposed to people like me telling them what problems they will have. AMD users don't need sympathy when they get issues: they just need patches... and those patches will come.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by sandy8925 View Post
                cybertraveler - Well, unfortunately AMD's GPU drivers are just not as good enough as Intel's and NVIDUA's drivers. There are still few annoying bugs ehre and there, with random GPU hangs, display problems etc. In contrast I've never faced problems with Intel GPU drivers. They're solid and just work.
                Yeah Intel drivers are generally great. It's not like for like though. AMD hardware is vastly superior to Intel. If you want to play modern games on an Open Source system then AMD is your best option. If you're not into gaming or other tasks which require a fast GPU, then Intel is your best option.

                NVIDIA's proprietary drivers are unacceptable in an Open Source ecosystem. NVIDIA are a burden on the Open Source developers working on Linux, XOrg & Wayland. Please do not support them. They wont even provide us with signed, usable firmware for all their modern cards so we can build our own drivers for their hardware.

                If you want to play modern games on GNU/Linux please buy AMD hardware and ideally learn how to document and report driver bugs so the drivers can be improved.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by timofonic View Post


                  Are there a difference? Both companies want to control a market and impose their politics. They are called corporations.
                  The difference is that Red Hat is actually doing something for Linux while Oracle just uses Linux to make big money from their overrated distro, while killing OSS stuff and Solaris in the meantime.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by PackRat View Post
                    Linux is not mainstream give it up. Microsoft has surface studio and dell canvas both run the software I want to use, Ubuntu can not run Autodesk Maya and Mudbox (runs on centos/rhel), pixologic zbrush win and mac only.
                    That's not entirely true. For testing purpose, some years ago after I downloaded Maya 8.5 DVD ISOs, all I had to do was to convert packages from rpm to deb format using standard tools like fakeroot and alien(+a small crack maybe). Sometime it happens to crash, but it worked, using Ubuntu64bit with NVidia proprietary drivers.

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                    • #40
                      Having bought things from Richard, and benefited from fwupd, I will tend to side with him on matters such as these. There is no particularly good reason we should be integrating third-party proprietary flashing tools into this system. If System76 is totally okay with something like that that, that's their prerogative, but that doesn't mean it necessarily belongs upstream.

                      I also second Richard's suggestion of the Dell XPS lineup. They have people dedicated full time to making everything work, they respond promptly to feedback from the community at large, and the machines they start with are already excellent laptops in the first place. If you're buying a laptop to run Linux today, Dell offers by far the best laptop, and Purism offers the purest; System76 seems to offer neither, and I say this as a former customer and (at times) fanboy.
                      Last edited by microcode; 05-13-2018, 01:00 PM.

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