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  • #51
    Originally posted by srakitnican View Post
    Now with system tray there is no other solution then to implement it in core in my opinion. After reading long reddit thread this is the only option. Gnome is doing something unusual that 97% (speculated) of application developers are not used to. By just removing that functionality entirely and hoping for everyone to adapt is a little bit naive to say the least. And it seems that their way of doing things currently can't even replace system tray entirely.
    Some popular OS's from back in the day never even had a system tray to begin with (AmigaOS) or still don't have it, popularity aside (AmigaOS 4), some have something similar but not entirely (Haiku, macOS - yes, macOS doesn't have a system tray technically, it's more of an indicator area like Ubuntu used to have and Apple doesn't even mention the area specifically, meaning they think it's simply a part of the Menu Bar) or tried to do away with it just like GNOME (Windows 8/8.1). So it's not like GNOME is doing something unusual. You may not like it and I understand why you don't like it, but unusual it ain't.
    Now when it comes to desktop icons, that's a different piece of cake. I totally understand why it was removed, but I will agree that that, unlike the removal of the system tray, *is* an unusual move.
    Last edited by Vistaus; 03-12-2018, 04:07 PM.

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    • #52
      Originally posted by jacob View Post

      There is a big difference between an app that 20% of the users will use once a month and the 80% won't ever use at all, and an extension that would be an integral part of everyone's daily usage. Don't you think?
      Not everyone uses desktop icons (me included, and I'm not even using GNOME Shell!), so don't use the word "everyone".

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      • #53
        Originally posted by Mez' View Post
        When someone basically states that different opinions from his own are uninformed idiots, we shouldn't bother much.
        Are you talking about me? When I was talking about trolling earlier I was doing so in reference to the kind of shit you find on OMG Ubuntu and not talking about anyone specific here although this place can be pretty toxic at times.

        Originally posted by Mez' View Post
        There are so many reasons why it's bad to have such a normal, standard, trivial feature completely deprecated and hidden in an extension that will be lost amongst the terrible website for gnome extensions. If they don't know what they're looking for in that horrible mess, they will never find it.

        I'm not using these icons as I don't like clutter on my background. Also, I understand that it hasn't been maintained. Still, I think most newcomers will be disoriented by this and thus it's the wrong move with regard to common features. It's just a right click away in Windows (as much as I hate to admit this).

        PS: Even if it ends up being a first party extension, most newcomers will not be aware of its existence or how to activate it. Better than expecting for them to find it on the extensions site though.
        The problem is there's always more work than there are people to do it. I think that the GNOME developers have a vision and for the most part that aligns with how I want to use my computer but they seem to lack the resources to make it happen quickly. That means they have to choose wisely where to spend their resources, and I'm not saying that they always do, but in the case of getting rid of desktop icons and letting a third party implement the system tray there's at least some sense to it.

        I'd love to see a proper welcome process that walks the user through first time configuration, where to get extensions and what the major extensions are. I think that would solve some of this, but I don't know how and where to best suggest this. Bugzilla and mailing lists are a barrier to entry that I honestly cannot be bothered breaking.

        That's got to be my biggest issue with GNOME, that it's difficult to give feedback even for a more technically minded user.

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        • #54
          Originally posted by srakitnican View Post

          I don't do programming, sorry and I think this is not the issue here, the issue is in the design. Even if someone could come up with something like this it wouldn't be accepted anyway, probably.

          Personally I've learned to live without desktop icons, but occasionally I miss the desktop ability to accept temporary files when unpacking something in a rush. Most users coming from more popular OSes expect that functionality and the first impact with Linux will be a Gnome without this possibility, because of that I expect 70% rejecting Linux immediately because of that. Having half baked display server enabled by default in Gnome surely doesn't help Linux ecosystem. e.g. input lag and missing functionality (like a remote desktop to help those new users :facepalm as major ones.

          Now with system tray there is no other solution then to implement it in core in my opinion. After reading long reddit thread this is the only option. Gnome is doing something unusual that 97% (speculated) of application developers are not used to. By just removing that functionality entirely and hoping for everyone to adapt is a little bit naive to say the least. And it seems that their way of doing things currently can't even replace system tray entirely.
          Install the 'Topicons plus' extension https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1031/topicons/ . System Tray magically re-appears. There were articles about it for 3.26 saying that was the official replacement for the system tray. Works fine. hplip is the only thing I've seen so far that outright complains if you remove it.

          There is no remote desktop in by default in Gnome. Input lag are facts. No hard feelings, but it just doesn't work.
          What are you on about? Go into the Gnome settings -> Sharing -> Screen Sharing. It sets up a VNC session, you can set a password, and turn on/off control, and you can even set which network you want to have access.
          Last edited by leech; 03-13-2018, 12:25 AM. Reason: Added URL for extension

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          • #55
            Originally posted by Vistaus View Post

            Not everyone uses desktop icons (me included, and I'm not even using GNOME Shell!), so don't use the word "everyone".
            I actually hate desktop icons and wish the other operating systems would get rid of them.

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            • #56
              Originally posted by leech View Post

              Install the 'Topicons plus' extension https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1031/topicons/ . System Tray magically re-appears. There were articles about it for 3.26 saying that was the official replacement for the system tray. Works fine. hplip is the only thing I've seen so far that outright complains if you remove it.
              Right, didn't work last time I've tried it, before I switched to something else.

              Originally posted by leech View Post
              What are you on about? Go into the Gnome settings -> Sharing -> Screen Sharing. It sets up a VNC session, you can set a password, and turn on/off control, and you can even set which network you want to have access.

              So we should also tell newcomers to set port forwarding on router. Something tells me that if they manage to do that they don't need help. I was talking about popular remote desktop software like TeamViewer where usually stuff just works.

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              • #57
                That's a bit different than "No remote control!" That's "No desktop support tool so that some random stranger can control your desktop and fix your issues." By the way, last I tried (which was a long ass time ago) you could still use TeamViewer through the website.

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by leech View Post

                  I actually hate desktop icons and wish the other operating systems would get rid of them.
                  Likewise. I just end up with a bunch of random stuff that doesn't go away when I reboot. /tmp is much better (and a more convenient path too).

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                  • #59
                    Originally posted by leech View Post
                    That's a bit different than "No remote control!" That's "No desktop support tool so that some random stranger can control your desktop and fix your issues." By the way, last I tried (which was a long ass time ago) you could still use TeamViewer through the website.
                    True.

                    Btw, I never knew TeamViewer had a web app as well. I can't find it on their website either. Link?

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by leech View Post

                      I actually hate desktop icons and wish the other operating systems would get rid of them.
                      It doesn't matter if you hate them. That's just your subjective opinion and nobody cares about it or about mine (I have no use for it either).

                      What matters is that many users include it in their workflow. And you have to respect that. I'm sick of people that want to remove features because they don't have an open enough mind to just acknowledge and respect others might need and/or like it.

                      A 2018 operating system (or DE) has to include this feature (with the use of 1 or 2 clicks tops) if it respects its users.

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