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Microsoft Is Trying To Make Windows Subsystem For Linux Faster (WSL)

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  • #11
    Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
    Beyond use in corporate IT environments run by people too incompetent to support anything other than windows I've never really understood the point of this thing...
    I've used it to build a few binaries (statically so I can copy them to my other machine) when my distro of choice couldn't satisfy certain dependencies and I couldn't be bothered deploying an Ubuntu/Debian VM. I've also built openwrt images using it over similar circumstances.

    It's also pretty useful on really shitty laptops that are too weak or low on RAM to run a VM but lack good linux support.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
      Beyond use in corporate IT environments run by people too incompetent to support anything other than windows I've never really understood the point of this thing... Feels like it's sole purpose is the same as when Microsoft funded SCO's lawsuits against IBM and other major Linux users, i.e stall uptake in the corporate use of Linux. At least it's less underhanded than how they got Munich to drop their Linux initiative by promising to move their German HQ there if they dropped it.

      Oh and before anyone mentions the Accenture report the politicians used to justify the move, the primary issues it found with the Linux initiative weren't with the software itself, but the with the management of the initiative.
      For my job I need to compile for Windows/Linux desktop, embedded linux, bare metal, FPGA and use assorted Windows only CAD related things. I can do all those things on my Windows laptop, though I mostly use MSYS2 instead of WSL. I'd prefer to use Linux if I could, I do at home and would be allowed to at work, but unfortunately at this point Windows can do everything Linux can, while the reverse is far from true.

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      • #13
        What? Microsoft is actually fixing a flaw instead of adding more features and ignoring glaring issues? I'll take that!

        It's funny that they're fixing something that is non-Windows related. Still waiting on them fixing System Settings (Control Panel is still more general/powerful), the rift between Microsoft Store apps and Programs & Features, Visual Studio telling you that a license is not on a Microsoft account and to switch user (and it has a convenient "Switch User" button) only to tell you that you can't switch user when you try (nevermind that the license is there) and then visiting Stack Exchange to learn how to switch user from the developer prompt, Office365 stripping attachments in messages you forward, Outlook365 recommending confounding contacts when typing names (Why is "Katie" a top 5 matched contact when typing "Wang"!?), Outlook365 e-mail search working mysteriously (why can't I sometimes find e-mails by exact subject line, but find confounding unrelated e-mails instead?), Outlook365 preventing us from changing subject lines in Reply emails (Microsoft knows how we should do e-mail, thanks Microsoft!), Outlook365 obnoxiously inserting unnecessary "Web previews" for every hyperlink you paste, Windows Phone spell checker producing confounding recommendations (when typing "applicati" the #2 recommended auto-complete word is the country "Spain"... I have a screenshot!), Windows phone ruining my contact list with hundreds of abandoned 1990s contacts (to which a factory reset is the only solution), Windows Phone not engaging display/touch so that you can see and press "End Call" button during a call, Windows Phone accepting my credentials/account and then perpetually telling me that settings from my account are not correct to login again.

        And the Windows 8/10 UI looking like a 1980s/90s TWM/FluxBox with all its solid colors and boxy widgets and windows instead of the relatively more sophisticated UI and effects of Windows 7 certainly provides more opportunities for improvements!

        BUT HEY! Microsoft is fixing IO performance in their Linux environment for Windows. Just brilliant! I'm sure they could also improve their telemetry/surveillance? I think us Windows 10 users could stand to gain from improvements in telemetry and surveillance features.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by nslay View Post
          What? Microsoft is actually fixing a flaw instead of adding more features and ignoring glaring issues? I'll take that!

          It's funny that they're fixing something that is non-Windows related. Still waiting on them fixing System Settings (Control Panel is still more general/powerful), the rift between Microsoft Store apps and Programs & Features, Visual Studio telling you that a license is not on a Microsoft account and to switch user (and it has a convenient "Switch User" button) only to tell you that you can't switch user when you try (nevermind that the license is there) and then visiting Stack Exchange to learn how to switch user from the developer prompt, Office365 stripping attachments in messages you forward, Outlook365 recommending confounding contacts when typing names (Why is "Katie" a top 5 matched contact when typing "Wang"!?), Outlook365 e-mail search working mysteriously (why can't I sometimes find e-mails by exact subject line, but find confounding unrelated e-mails instead?), Outlook365 preventing us from changing subject lines in Reply emails (Microsoft knows how we should do e-mail, thanks Microsoft!), Outlook365 obnoxiously inserting unnecessary "Web previews" for every hyperlink you paste, Windows Phone spell checker producing confounding recommendations (when typing "applicati" the #2 recommended auto-complete word is the country "Spain"... I have a screenshot!), Windows phone ruining my contact list with hundreds of abandoned 1990s contacts (to which a factory reset is the only solution), Windows Phone not engaging display/touch so that you can see and press "End Call" button during a call, Windows Phone accepting my credentials/account and then perpetually telling me that settings from my account are not correct to login again.

          And the Windows 8/10 UI looking like a 1980s/90s TWM/FluxBox with all its solid colors and boxy widgets and windows instead of the relatively more sophisticated UI and effects of Windows 7 certainly provides more opportunities for improvements!

          BUT HEY! Microsoft is fixing IO performance in their Linux environment for Windows. Just brilliant! I'm sure they could also improve their telemetry/surveillance? I think us Windows 10 users could stand to gain from improvements in telemetry and surveillance features.
          I think the team working on WSL is distinct from peoples working on Outlook, or Visual Studio, or GUI configuration of Windows. Although I admit the possibility they were the peoples who worked on some of that 😛

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          • #15
            Originally posted by shmerl View Post
            Reading through Wine Wikipedia article, I noticed this:
            Do they still do it? Would kind of hypocritical for them to work on WSL, while doing the above in Wine.
            Considering Wine and Microsoft track record in breaking shit after updates, I'm not sure I see that as a bad thing.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by nslay View Post
              BUT HEY! Microsoft is fixing IO performance in their Linux environment for Windows. Just brilliant! I'm sure they could also improve their telemetry/surveillance? I think us Windows 10 users could stand to gain from improvements in telemetry and surveillance features.
              Telemetry is already at peak performance, they can't improve it further. Don't mind, citizen, big brother is your friend.

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              • #17
                Legends tell I've been using Windows many years ago. While there was nothing to be proud of, I've eventually made things MUCH faster for me. By merely replacing Windows with Linux, lol. This is especially noticeable when building POSIX programs using make, autotools and so on. It has turned out Windows does not really handles launching big number of different processes really well. Linux did it like 5x faster. Hell, I've upgraded my PC without buying any single hardware part . After all that MS guy who told us the story on why Windows is slow seems to be so damn right. MS is good at marketing. Linux is good at doing things. That's the difference. And somehow it does not needs telemetry and is not sending my keypresses to MS-CIA (or was it MS-NSA?) servers, lol. So dear MS, fuck off and use your crap yourself. With all damn telemetry and other nasty proprietary surprises you've got in your backpack.
                Last edited by SystemCrasher; 19 November 2017, 03:32 PM.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by c117152 View Post
                  I've used it to build a few binaries (statically so I can copy them to my other machine) when my distro of choice couldn't satisfy certain dependencies and I couldn't be bothered deploying an Ubuntu/Debian VM. I've also built openwrt images using it over similar circumstances.
                  What kind of dependencies can't be satisfied by a particular distro? Default repos may not have everything everyone needs, but you can always add more and compile stuff from source if your needs are very specific (I work on embedded stuff so cross compiling APIs and applications isn't anything new to me). Sounds more like a PEBKAC issue than anything else...

                  It's also pretty useful on really shitty laptops that are too weak or low on RAM to run a VM but lack good linux support.
                  It's not 2007 any more so you can stop complaining about incompatibilities and there is such a thing as dual booting.

                  Originally posted by patstew View Post
                  For my job I need to compile for Windows/Linux desktop, embedded linux, bare metal, FPGA and use assorted Windows only CAD related things. I can do all those things on my Windows laptop, though I mostly use MSYS2 instead of WSL. I'd prefer to use Linux if I could, I do at home and would be allowed to at work, but unfortunately at this point Windows can do everything Linux can, while the reverse is far from true.
                  From my experience unless it's something really niche and can't be run in a VM or under Wine the whole "But I need windows" is really just an excuse people make. Nothing of what you describe sounds like something that can't be done using a VM.
                  Last edited by L_A_G; 20 November 2017, 07:03 AM.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
                    What kind of dependencies can't be satisfied by a particular distro?
                    Blobs mostly. But in one case it was an off-tree kernel module patch that I could either build without headers using my own distro or use the Windows/Ubuntu thingy that had headers readily available. Also, Android SDK isn't available in many distros and is a bitch to get going and compiling stuff for your phone on anything not Ubuntu. Gradle stuff is especially a hoot...

                    Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
                    It's not 2007 any more so you can stop complaining about incompatibilities
                    Lenovo Yoga 710 was just last year. And there are plenty of shitty low-end nearly generic tablets and laptops that won't run linux. The Atoms especially standout. And there's the BayTrails... https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109051

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by c117152 View Post

                      Blobs mostly. But in one case it was an off-tree kernel module patch that I could either build without headers using my own distro or use the Windows/Ubuntu thingy that had headers readily available. Also, Android SDK isn't available in many distros and is a bitch to get going and compiling stuff for your phone on anything not Ubuntu. Gradle stuff is especially a hoot...
                      You should definitely try Archlinux, it's an amazing distro for development. E.g. android studio you can install through android-studioᴬᵁᴿ. Linux headers is, well, "linux-headers", in the repo. But that's not the point — the point is, it makes installing stuff from source code or making your own packages very easy, far better than e.g. Ubuntu. As a good example — instead of mesa PPA you have mesa-gitᴬᵁᴿ which downloads latest git code, checks dependencies, and builds the package for you with the flags you supplied in makepkg.conf.

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