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Taking ReactOS 0.4 RC1 For A Test Drive To Experience Open-Source Windows Compatibility

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  • #21
    The project is soooo cool But do not expect too much guys, Windows has so many API, drivers, versions and entry points that Windows versions may come much faster than ReactOS can manage them... if they ever get a single one.

    Anyway they really achieved a lot since the last version. Has anyone tried to run it on real hardware ?

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    • #22
      Actually, EpicFailOS would sound better as project name. It fails to boot on my test VM if I try typical config. If I manage to boot it up, it shows me two zillions of various bugs, being unusable for virtually anything as it lacking any drivers. It allows to choose between two prehistoric filesystems: FAT from DOS ages and EXT2 from early Linux days, which isn't most exciting choice for sure. I was not able to boot it up on physical PC and get anything reasonable, whatever I try. It seems it lacks drivers for absolutely anything I can imagine, be it net, video, sound or whatever. ironically, windows drivers are failing to work. If you manage to get to the point you have chance to try it at all, which is not to be taken as granted.

      Furtermore, this garbage state of project persists for 15 years! When I've been curious and trying to boot this EpicFailOS 15 years before, I've seen very similar things. It just fucking amazing how some project can waste 15 years with so little improvement, staying so fucking unusable while pretending to be OS. As far as I know, reactos devs are using Windows on their workstations and do not boot into reactos. Proabably it explains why it performs so poorly. My Linux desktop looks like state of art compared to this garbage OS.

      In fact it serves as windows advertisement: windows is so much better people can get idea they better pay for real windows rather than use this smouldering wreck for free. Somehow it is really false impression: opensource can do much better than that.
      Last edited by SystemCrasher; 16 December 2015, 01:46 PM.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
        The point is to get something which can replace Windows XP
        There is no such point, it is way too late. These days even browsers do not support WinXP, so you're going to be left without any modern software at all. And without drivers, because these days nobody targets WinXP.

        and let people play around with the source code in a non-unixy OS.
        15 years back to past I've had similar idea. And so how it looks like?
        1) Bunch of winduz guys who are using MSVS. No, you can't install MSVS in ROS, because ROS would crash way before install completes, LOL.
        2) They are doing it in Windows. They do not boot to ReactOS. For Torvalds it has been matter of 1 month to write some basic core facilities, boot to his OS and then he has been pressed hard to get things working. Eventually managing to do it. ROS devs are just a bunch of weak-minded windows devs. They never managed to cross this Rubicon.
        3) Their project management is awful. Torvalds shown us you can gradually transform even mediocre design to real powerhouse, subject to enough time and efforts. ROS devs are infected by perfectionism, so they rewrote OS kernel for 3 times from scratch. As the result, 15 years later their OS kernel still works like garbage, being much worse than ancient Linux 2.4. Example of really bad project management.
        4) They suck in project management much harder than one can imagine. They claimed they would implement Windows APIs and then drivers would start working. Somehow, it never worked. Windows proven to be moving target, they were unable to catch up, and ROS can't use most windows drivers, neither 15 years back to past, nor today. Then, no driver devs care about ROS, so they have 100% uncooperative upstreams as well. OTOH in Linux devs haven't wasted their time and created open drives. Drivers which will stay with us as long as we need 'em to degree someone is willing to invest their time supporting it. Sounds fair enough, and IMHO it is much better than ancient unsupported binary-only abandonware. Those who got caught should learn the lesson and next time take a look why we are so happy about opensource things. But of course, feel free to fall into same pit. Yet I think ROS idea with drivers has failed miserably, 15 years later they still can't use win drivers. Failing the whole point of project: Linux + wine is far more stable thing to just occasionally launch some windows program and it supports orders of magnitude more hardware. That's what I call irony!
        5) They still rely on SVN. They use git mirror, but their development processes are limited by svn. So they are hardly better than most of BSDs.
        6) Somehow, their believe in superb MS tools haven't turned 'em into superb project. It seems it is not superb enterprise tools what it takes to create superb project, its about superb devs and decent project management. Something ROS lacks.

        So speaking for myself I'm really happy I haven't wasted 15 years on this trashbin thing. Seems playing with their code is a really good way to waste like 15 years for nothing.

        You'd be surprised how many old systems are out there still running old windows systems - they don't get upgraded because they have special hardware or software which only supported that old version of windows,
        Those who were serious already learned their lessons how to do it right. Do you honestly hope to live long enough to see ROS being able to start up, be stable enough and even manage to load your ancient drivers and go for some reasonable time without crashing? Their shitty state of project persists for 15 years and hardly improved at all. That's what happens when devs prefer to use Windows since they do not believe into their own OS and consider it some toy project or so.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by unixfan2001 View Post
          It's not useless nor does it even seek to supplant wine.
          it is useless in terms of "windows compatibility"

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          • #25
            Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
            If developed properly, it should work with native Windows drivers, which is something you can't do in wine.
            but what windows drivers have to do with windows compatibility? windows drivers compatibility alredy works on linux with ndiswrapper for example and does not introduce linux incompatibility like reactos. and btw it will never be developed properly during lifetime of hardware in question

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            • #26
              Originally posted by pal666 View Post
              but what windows drivers have to do with windows compatibility? windows drivers compatibility alredy works on linux with ndiswrapper for example and does not introduce linux incompatibility like reactos. and btw it will never be developed properly during lifetime of hardware in question
              It has almost everything to do with compatibility... One of the primary reasons wine isn't a viable option to run Windows software is because it doesn't directly communicate to hardware all that well. One of the reasons people use Windows is because of driver support.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                You'd be surprised how many old systems are out there still running old windows systems - they don't get upgraded because they have special hardware or software which only supported that old version of windows, and nobody wants to spend the millions of dollars it would take to upgrade those terminals with new hardware/software. So they just sit there. Why not target that market and see if you can come up with something better?
                because 1) upgrading them to arm will be cheaper than current electricity bills and 2) it is easier to write linux driver for that shit than to write whole windows

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                  It has almost everything to do with compatibility... One of the primary reasons wine isn't a viable option to run Windows software is because it doesn't directly communicate to hardware all that well. One of the reasons people use Windows is because of driver support.
                  it was already told you that linux has perfect windows drivers compatibility and reactos in reality does not support windows drivers and does not boot and introduces linux incompatibility

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by pal666 View Post
                    it was already told you that linux has perfect windows drivers compatibility and reactos in reality does not support windows drivers and does not boot and introduces linux incompatibility
                    But, it doesn't. Ndiswrapper doesn't work for everything, nor was it supposed to. If you're trying to run a Windows program in linux that is device-specific, there's a good chance it won't work in wine.

                    I never said reactos does support windows drivers, I was saying that when/if it does, that would give it an edge and a reason to use it.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                      Ndiswrapper doesn't work for everything, nor was it supposed to.
                      but reactos doesn't work at all and never will. while ndiswrapper-like solution can be easily made to work with sufficient demand(evidently there are zero)
                      Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                      I never said reactos does support windows drivers, I was saying that when/if it does, that would give it an edge and a reason to use it.
                      then say same when/if shit about ndiswrapper and stop hallucinating about reactos

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