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FSF Issues A Statement Over Windows 10

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  • #21
    So what - so do Google, Facebook, 99% of all sites you ever registered to, you internet provider, phone company. Last year I got a call from my bank telling me they saw I was doing a lot of online purchases with Visa debit card and they asked me if I wanted to get a credit card instead. Microsoft is just a drop in the sea of companies that gather consumer information. It's the oil of tomorrow - customer info. It sucks but it's how the world works. If they disappear tomorrow absolutely nothing will change in the grand scheme. Don't forget Cannonical did exactly the same thing and they're only the developers of the most popular Linux distro.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by monraaf View Post
      Windows 10 is wonderful, Microsoft can disclose your data when it feels like it:
      "We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to protect our customers or enforce the terms governing the use of the services."
      Yeah, but we need to have a bit of context: obviously they can only disclose data they collect (otherwise they don't have it and therefore can't disclose it), so we need to check out what they collect (the first section of their privacy statement). As far as I can see, the content they "collect" is things like emails you send via their services and stuff you upload to places like OneDrive. That being the case, I don't see how this is different to any other "cloud" service, and nor do I see it as being anything to worry about unless you use those services.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by mao_dze_dun View Post
        So what - so do Google, Facebook, 99% of all sites you ever registered to, you internet provider, phone company. Last year I got a call from my bank telling me they saw I was doing a lot of online purchases with Visa debit card and they asked me if I wanted to get a credit card instead. Microsoft is just a drop in the sea of companies that gather consumer information. It's the oil of tomorrow - customer info. It sucks but it's how the world works. If they disappear tomorrow absolutely nothing will change in the grand scheme. Don't forget Cannonical did exactly the same thing and they're only the developers of the most popular Linux distro.
        Oh, so it's alright because "everyone" is doing it

        It's all about limiting to "who" you share your information with. If someone wanted to find out who you are, what you do, and other details, it would be much easier for them if you happen to use Google services + devices, Facebook, and Windows 10 + MSA, vs Linux, some non-US email server, and some random Frendica site.

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        • #24
          The FSF message boils down to having the ability to choose.

          I'd like to hear the FSF message for quite a while longer.

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          • #25
            To those who say "so what-Google and Facebook have the same information," remember, some of us exercise the option NOT to have accounts on these services. Within that group, some of us go farther and block their sharing buttons, scripts, etc on all other sites. Thus they do not have information on everyone. You can find my videos by a Google search easily enough as they no doubt scrape Archive, but you'll never find my legal name, address, etc as I don't let those cross the Internet. Since I don't use Windows you can't look for the computer that posted the video, attack Archive to inject code to identify the motherboard, then compare that information to Windows activation logs to get that information. Once this is in an MS server along with all that other information WinBlows 10 and Cortana collect, your legal name (from purchase records if you didn't use cash!) can be tied to every post you make using that machine, no matter what the website, so long as it is intercepted and that unique advertising ID read. Even if you boot it up in TAILS, if an attacker is sucessful in defeating the robust TAILS security and can read the motherboard's true UUID (requires privilige escalation) , you are identified and if you just criticized the Great Leader the secret police are on their way. Buy computers only with cash, and wipe rather than activate Windows. It's like buying a gun in a place where serial numbers are on all parts but can be legally drilled out and where cash/no ID transactions are openly legal but are not the default. Keep in mind, in the modern hackable world politicians really do see computers as the next guns. You don't want a registered one!

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            • #26
              Originally posted by eydee View Post
              Problem is, statements like this will convince 0 people to switch, while it will cause masses to frown upon the linux ecosystem/community even more.
              Almost nobody will ever hear this, so masses certainly won't be frowning on anyway.

              Originally posted by eydee View Post
              Working on making linux more user friendly would have more results.
              Friendly to what user? What makes something friendly? "User friendly" is a marketing term, not a technical one. It is not defined and everyone has their own opinion on what it looks like.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by PreferLinux View Post
                That being the case, I don't see how this is different to any other "cloud" service, and nor do I see it as being anything to worry about unless you use those services.
                There is the difference of scope.

                A cloud service has access to the data you explicitly decide to share with that service.
                The operation system has access to all your data!
                And, on top of that, also has access on how and when you use your data.

                Cheers,
                _

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by paulpach View Post
                  To the FSF, the most valuable feature of a software, is the ability to modify it. This is fine and all, and most of us would agree there is value in it.
                  Not quite. For the FSF it is a fundamental right to study and potentially modify the software.
                  They assert that having "bought" program should put you in the same situation as when you buy a physical product.

                  Originally posted by paulpach View Post
                  The problem is that value is a relative term. Being able to modify source code is more valuable for a developer than it is for a writer trying to write his novel or a kid playing his game. Value only exists in the mind of the person doing the valuation.
                  Not necessarily.
                  Being within your right to modify an item is not less valuable if you are not capabale of affecting the alteration personally.
                  The value persists because you can chose to delegate the alteration process.
                  Like delegating the fixing of a broken air condition to an electrician if you yourself do not have the necessary know-how or tools to do it yourself.

                  It is less a matter of what can do but more a matter of what you are allowed to do.

                  Originally posted by paulpach View Post
                  It is perfectly fine for a customer to choose windows over GNU/Linux, if THEY themselves determine that it serves them better. There is nobody else that can do this determination better than the individual customer, not the government, not Microsoft, and not the FSF.
                  Absolutely and the FSF is not trying to make that determination for anyone else.
                  What the do with statements like this, however, is to provide anyone with a bigger picture to base their individual decision on.

                  Originally posted by paulpach View Post
                  To murk the issue even further, the FSF confuses this feature with ethics.
                  The ethical issue is that the software vendor, in contrast to a vendor of a physical product, imposes restriction on you as the item owner and has these restrictions inforced by law, law that has actually nothing to do with the restrictions it is used to enforce.

                  Software vendors abuse copyright law to restrict your ability to study and potentially modify the item, despite the law being intended to prohibit duplication (copying).

                  Originally posted by paulpach View Post
                  It is like claiming that it is unethical for a restaurant to offer food without providing the recipe.
                  It is more like buying a restaurant, retaining the staff but the staff's contracts with the previous owner prohibiting them from sharing recipies with you or makig changes to said recipies.

                  And on top of that using employment laws to keep you from changing your staff.

                  Cheers,
                  _

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by anda_skoa View Post
                    It is more like buying a restaurant, retaining the staff but the staff's contracts with the previous owner prohibiting them from sharing recipies with you or makig changes to said recipies.
                    No, it's like trying to make an argument through stupid analogies that only distract people into arguing over the appropriateness of the analogy...

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                    • #30
                      This article is worth reading but I sincerely doubt the OPT OUTs work in reality since windows keeps multiple copies of files and logs throughout your suystem.
                      Windows 10 is spying on almost everything you do ? here?s how to opt out

                      By Zach Epstein on Jul 31, 2015 at 9:05 AM
                      http://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10...ow-to-opt-out/

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