Microsoft Visual Studio 2015 Supports Targeting Linux

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  • Luke_Wolf
    replied
    Originally posted by zezba9000 View Post
    Well it would be cool if you're right. Making tool apps in WPF/XAML would be very useful. Way better then Cocoa. QT seems good but I don't like there editor at all.
    It would be cool yeah, I get the feeling that BUILD2015 is going to be a watershed moment for both .NET and Microsoft. The feeling I've gotten from the remaining holdouts who have been interviewed by various people seems to me to be fear over insuring quality control and how to handle releases. The success of .NET Core will very likely change some of those minds.

    Originally posted by zezba9000 View Post
    I think you might be confusing CoreCLR with CoreFX though. CoreFX is all the framework libraries that makes the lang useful. Like "System.Console.WriteLine(...);" ect. CoreFX even has specific Win32 libs for special OS tasks and one for Posix to I think. Its porting everything to CoreFX thats the real issue I think. The only runtime features CoreCLR doesn't support .NET did is Application Domains or Code Access Security: http://www.dotnetfoundation.org/netcore5
    Not sure if WPF used any of that.
    I'm basing the statement I made on this: https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/issues/523 and other discussion I've seen around the CoreCLR issue list which indicated various under the covers win32 usage with them slowly moving that behind a PAL, admittedly I'm not involved in the development so I don't know for sure, just what I know from following the CoreCLR pretty closely.

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  • zezba9000
    replied
    @SystemCrasher Or BTW ASP.NET is way faster (about 5x) then PHP FYI: http://www.wrensoft.com/zoom/benchmarks.html

    Have fun...

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  • zezba9000
    replied
    Originally posted by SystemCrasher View Post
    I think .NET devs should just admit they made big mistake learning .NET and wasted heck a lot of time and efforts for nothing, in really counterproductive ways (do not forget to thank MS and their marketing bullshit, of course). Then they can go learn some PHP and somesuch, to get idea how to make Linux servers more fun and less pain . Seriously, if one about servers and web, one PHP dev can beat team of 5 ASP.NET nuts at once. I've seen how ASP.NET devs are working. This is horrible, to say the least.
    This is so asinine. Do you also realize they are both Open Source? So people can have choices but just not if you don't like that choice... what you see is not what is as its solely based on your emotional bias.
    Last edited by zezba9000; 03 April 2015, 12:33 AM.

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  • zezba9000
    replied
    Originally posted by SystemCrasher View Post
    Open Source from Microsoft? It is something like Dancing Cows from farmer John . Maybe I really lack imagination but I have hard time to imagine which insane person could need something like this and why. I think it could be better for MS honestly admit ASP.NET failure and honestly explain it does not haves bright future.


    Sure, we are "fragmented". In sense we do not want wear standard gray uniform and obey some single fuhrer who would dictate us what to do, with no means for override. And that's what I got to hate about windows. You face some questionable decisions and no means to override. This makes windows usage inconvenient and frustrating and no real ways to fix it.


    Well, thanks to microsoft actions most of their activity and everything related with it proven to be hostile and poisonous to anything which is not windows.
    Yes lets deny the reality to feel better about our false bias and emotional stupidity. Things are NOT static and do change. Change with them or evolution has it in for you.
    To become less fragmented doesn't mean you need a dictator. It means standards are used by a majority because they logically and scientifically make since for the majority. This doesn't mean fragmentation for experimentation is bad, its just not practical for everyone to be running experiments for productivity reasons.

    Personally I would use Linux if I didn't need Windows for work as at the end of the day Open Source concepts will win out. But disregarding a technology because it was developed by a company you don't like doesn't make the tech or ideas they have bad.
    Last edited by zezba9000; 03 April 2015, 12:22 AM.

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  • zezba9000
    replied
    Originally posted by SystemCrasher View Post
    And you need to stop being retarded. Where can I find some crossplatform set of widgets? Which would present on every supported OS by default, as long as .NET is installed? None?
    Do you know how to use Google (I think its pretty retarded you don't)? To be honest people at your competence level don't matter. How about instead of asserting stuff you don't know ask lest you sound like a hypocrite. There are lots of cross platform UIs that work with .NET such as Eto.Forms, Xamarian.Forms, XWT and more which have been disused here: http://forums.dotnetfoundation.org/t...atform-wpf/421

    And of course MS started DRM shit crusade
    Actually they just made a product (Silverlight) that could be sold to the TV industry... O thats right Google now has too. The issue is not MS here but rather capitalism and how outdated it is in light of a new emerging environment generated by the internet among other things. You are fighting the wrong people and thus is why you don't see the change you desire.

    MS is a company who is rewarded by making a monetary profit for there sole interests even if it generates a negative outcome for others. So whats wrong here? The software MS develops which is very good for many cases or the reward mechanism that encourages bad behavior on the part of institutions for the people they are meant to serve.

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  • SystemCrasher
    replied
    Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
    Again, missing the point. They're doing this because a lot of .net developers want to deploy stuff to linux servers. That explains why the UI stuff is lower priority, and why they don't care what "people in Linux" want.
    I think .NET devs should just admit they made big mistake learning .NET and wasted heck a lot of time and efforts for nothing, in really counterproductive ways (do not forget to thank MS and their marketing bullshit, of course). Then they can go learn some PHP and somesuch, to get idea how to make Linux servers more fun and less pain . Seriously, if one about servers and web, one PHP dev can beat team of 5 ASP.NET nuts at once. I've seen how ASP.NET devs are working. This is horrible, to say the least.
    Last edited by SystemCrasher; 03 April 2015, 12:04 AM.

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  • SystemCrasher
    replied
    Originally posted by zezba9000 View Post
    What do you think VS is able to target on Linux? What the phoronix article fails to mention is it simply allows you to build CoreCLR apps or ASP.NET services of which are all fully Open Source.
    Open Source from Microsoft? It is something like Dancing Cows from farmer John . Maybe I really lack imagination but I have hard time to imagine which insane person could need something like this and why. I think it could be better for MS honestly admit ASP.NET failure and honestly explain it does not haves bright future.

    No wonder Linux desktop users are so fragmented,
    Sure, we are "fragmented". In sense we do not want wear standard gray uniform and obey some single fuhrer who would dictate us what to do, with no means for override. And that's what I got to hate about windows. You face some questionable decisions and no means to override. This makes windows usage inconvenient and frustrating and no real ways to fix it.

    No one is making the Linux dev enviroment less rich, in fact its just the opposite... so what on earth is wrong with that
    Well, thanks to microsoft actions most of their activity and everything related with it proven to be hostile and poisonous to anything which is not windows.

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  • smitty3268
    replied
    Originally posted by SystemCrasher View Post
    Do they honestly think people in Linux are in urgent need of their leftovers and scrap?
    Again, missing the point. They're doing this because a lot of .net developers want to deploy stuff to linux servers. That explains why the UI stuff is lower priority, and why they don't care what "people in Linux" want.

    Leave a comment:


  • SystemCrasher
    replied
    Originally posted by zezba9000 View Post
    You need only do the most basic research to find out why your assertion is false:
    CoreCLR (Runtime): https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr
    CoreFX (Frameworks): https://github.com/dotnet/corefx
    Roslyn (C# Compiler): https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn
    And you need to stop being retarded. Where can I find some crossplatform set of widgets? Which would present on every supported OS by default, as long as .NET is installed? None? Then mumbling about something crossplatform is blatant bullshit, at least for GUI programs. So far MS throwing out leftovers and scrap and keeps anything valuable closed. I wish them luck with this approach . Do they honestly think people in Linux are in urgent need of their leftovers and scrap?

    While MS isn't perfect as a company the people developing tech aren't stupid and make great things sometimes.
    Sure, sometimes MS did some fancy things in the past. NT4 and win2k were nice. Unfortunately MS has decided to completely overtake PC as platform. First they killed system programming by their exceptionally hostile approaches (so ReactOS now looks like real failboat due to lack of adequate kernel devs). But it had funny costs: people just started to develop low level parts of other OSes, where they're not locked out. Linux emerged and now it is noteworthy competitor. Which also supports far more hardware. You see, WinPhone suxx at ARM SoCs support. It was Linux who was able to support all these dozens of SoCs made by dozens of companies. And MS only supports few SoCs. Hey, Microsoft, payback time! Now they should suffer for their hostile monopolistic decisions, tee-hee.

    MS also killed most of filesystems development with their awful IFS DDK policy. Yet it had price, too. Now MS uses disk techs from 90s and they suck hard when it comes to filesystems. And only some few silly and useless parking hostings are using MS win as server OS to keep some place in web statistics. Everyone else prefers better OSes. It comes as far as MS using Linux based systems from AKAMAI CDN to serve their downloads. Sure, Linux is not stuck in 90s in terms of filesystems, net and so on. Since MS owns data centers and can get unlimited windows licenses, this surely indicates Windows internals and MS infrastructure are crap and simply uncompetitive.

    And of course MS started DRM shit crusade, beginning from mandatory activation in XP and ending locking down boot loaders and BIOS as of 2015. So they are ones who killed PC as open platform where everyone is welcome. Now PC is treacherous MS-inclined shit, where MS decides what one can or can't do. And then they mumble something about carma? Hmmph! They should mumble about double standards instead.

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  • zezba9000
    replied
    Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
    They're making the render backend modular so that they can support DX11 (and presumably DX12), which means that a render backend could in principle be written in OpenGL or Vulkan. As far as Win32 dependencies goes, well CoreCLR has/had the same problem, and now CoreCLR has initial ports for Linux, OS X, and FreeBSD, and the plans appear to be to solve most of the remaining win32 dependencies by moving all the code that operates at runtime into C#. I don't know what WPF looks like internally but I would imagine if the CLR could get it over it, that they can too.
    Well it would be cool if you're right. Making tool apps in WPF/XAML would be very useful. Way better then Cocoa. QT seems good but I don't like there editor at all.
    I think you might be confusing CoreCLR with CoreFX though. CoreFX is all the framework libraries that makes the lang useful. Like "System.Console.WriteLine(...);" ect. CoreFX even has specific Win32 libs for special OS tasks and one for Posix to I think. Its porting everything to CoreFX thats the real issue I think. The only runtime features CoreCLR doesn't support .NET did is Application Domains or Code Access Security: http://www.dotnetfoundation.org/netcore5
    Not sure if WPF used any of that.
    Last edited by zezba9000; 02 April 2015, 11:52 PM.

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