Originally posted by andyprough
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Originally posted by wizard69 View PostNow don't read into the above that I'm against decent working conditions. What I'm saying is that killing yourself is not a result of working conditions. Heathy people simply don't do that.
To quote you, that is complete garbage.
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Originally posted by wizard69 View PostThat is complete garbage. People don't kill themselves over working conditions, it is usually linked to depression.
Just an FYI, they get paid next to nothing and work long hours. If they do poorly or lose an arm or something they're replaced because everyone is so dirt poor and those factories are virtually the only way to get money. And with that money they have to pay for the housing (which the factory company probably owns) and with the little that they have left, they send it off their dirt poor families. Imagine being almost the only income for your family + extended family and then always being at risk of losing your job because your break was 5 minutes longer than they said it should be. Just imagine coming back to them and saying that you lost your job, or that you can't keep living that way.
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Originally posted by profoundWHALE View PostTIL that people don't kill themselves over some of the worst working conditions in the world, because they'd have to be severely depressed for that to happen, and you don't just get depression.
Just an FYI, they get paid next to nothing and work long hours. If they do poorly or lose an arm or something they're replaced because everyone is so dirt poor and those factories are virtually the only way to get money. And with that money they have to pay for the housing (which the factory company probably owns) and with the little that they have left, they send it off their dirt poor families. Imagine being almost the only income for your family + extended family and then always being at risk of losing your job because your break was 5 minutes longer than they said it should be. Just imagine coming back to them and saying that you lost your job, or that you can't keep living that way.
I like your comparison of foxconn to the old factory towns of the USA(maybe Europe had them as well?). Wizard is perfectly free to use, and enjoy, his Mac but I wish he wouldn't deny the copious evidence and working conditions at foxconn. The comparison to his depressed coworkers in upstate NY is, I think, demonstrating a misunderstanding. Yeah, there are depressed folks everywhere (super common malady), but if you don't think your work conditions can influence your feelings at least as much as your desktop ui ...
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Originally posted by liam View PostMany people are inclined towards depression, and the trigger that sets it off can seem arbitrary. I'm not saying that's the case with foxconn but wanted to clarify that it can just happen.
I like your comparison of foxconn to the old factory towns of the USA(maybe Europe had them as well?). Wizard is perfectly free to use, and enjoy, his Mac but I wish he wouldn't deny the copious evidence and working conditions at foxconn. The comparison to his depressed coworkers in upstate NY is, I think, demonstrating a misunderstanding. Yeah, there are depressed folks everywhere (super common malady), but if you don't think your work conditions can influence your feelings at least as much as your desktop ui ...
Foxconn produces electronic equipment not only for Apple, but also for Google, Microsoft, Acer, Blackberry, Dell, HP, Sony, Motorola, etc. Foxconn working conditions aren't isolated to Apple products, nor they are isolated to Foxconn. This situation is common not only in China but also in all other 3rd world countries that produce our stuff. It is the problem of neocolonialism. Putting the blame on one group of people when the entire society is at fault is like blaming the rape victim.
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Originally posted by Anarchy View PostIt is the problem of neocolonialism. Putting the blame on one group of people when the entire society is at fault is like blaming the rape victim.
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Originally posted by andyprough View PostAll you people claiming you use Macs for the commercial software are just hilarious. We all know you are firing up your Windows PC or your Boot Camp or Parrallels when you need to get work done on a real commercial offering.
But the beautiful thing about a Mac is that I can have my cake and eat it too: it has a complete Unix shell with all the necessary tools, right out of the box. And if you want more, 'brew' is a command away. I develop my programs on my Mac (iTerm, vim, the works) and run them overnight on the Linux farm. I could do just the same on a Windows system with cygwin, but that's always a little bit hackier, because cygwin and Windows use different file system conventions. So why bother?
Macs are good for Garage Band and some light video editing as far as I can tell.
But I've deleted them from my Mac, because I'm not a musician and I don't desire to be one.
Or watching something on Netflix.
Personally I can't think of much else, although I'm sure there's something. Macs are multiple iterations behind on MS Office apps usually, web browsing is downright hostile on Safari compared to most modern browsers. Games - forget about it. iTunes is one of the biggest abominations I've ever run into, although you're entitled to your opinion on that one.
I do my web browsing on Safari, but Chrome and Firefox are there if you need them. What are you using?
I don't game.
iTunes hasn't been necessary for your iDevices for years now, so who cares?
My family is completely on iPhone and iPads. When my daughter takes a picture, and I want it, she taps 'family share' and it shows up the next minute on my MacBook's iPhoto (as well as all other phones, of course.) Try that with Linux? There is no iPhoto for Windows, unfortunately, but I'm sure Google has something similar after you install it...
But you forget the most important thing: hardware. Find me one, just one, laptop with the same quality, size, and responsiveness touchpad as a MacBook. They don't exist. The overall full aluminum body build surpasses even those of Lenovo. The MagSafe is great. The retina screen a beauty. And TimeMachines/TimeCapsule, I could write a song about it.
Many laptops have some of the qualities of a MacBook, most you'd be hard pressed to find one that has all of them. (Did I mention the touchpad?)
So if you're going for a MacBook because of the hardware anyway, there's little point in wiping OSX and going Windows.
And the warranty thing - Apple care? Most computer retailers sell the same or better for less money - try the BestBuy warranty sometime - no questions asked returns. Or Amazon.
Face it - the reason you use Macs is because you like them (or they make you feel superior, which is a bit odd).
And, yes, I use the Mac because I like it. They look cool too!
Why try to tell us all about the "amazing advantages" - we've all tried them, and we all know many instances where they fall far short. If you like it - use it. Enjoy. No need to exaggerate the benefits.
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Originally posted by profoundWHALE View PostTIL that people don't kill themselves over some of the worst working conditions in the world, because they'd have to be severely depressed for that to happen, and you don't just get depression.
Just an FYI, they get paid next to nothing and work long hours.
If they do poorly or lose an arm or something they're replaced because everyone is so dirt poor and those factories are virtually the only way to get money.
And with that money they have to pay for the housing (which the factory company probably owns) and with the little that they have left, they send it off their dirt poor families. Imagine being almost the only income for your family + extended family and then always being at risk of losing your job because your break was 5 minutes longer than they said it should be.
Just imagine coming back to them and saying that you lost your job, or that you can't keep living that way.
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Originally posted by curaga View PostOf course healthy people kill themselves over working conditions. Put yourself to a slave camp and see how many years you last.
Further people don't line up to work in a slave camp. If your point of view had any credibility at all Foxcon would not be able to staff its factories.
To quote you, that is complete garbage.
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Originally posted by Luke View PostIf workplace conditions cannot substantially increase suicide rates, why were all the other motherboard makers-the ones who still have their plants in Taiwan and not mainland China-not also getting hammered about workplace suicides? Could it have to do with better working conditions not triggering depression perhaps?
I really don't understand you guys here claiming that the suicide rates are excessive at the Foxcon plants. The evidence simply isn't there.
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