Arch BSD Is Still Around & Keeping It Simple

[ninez]

Yes they should change that Arch way to something that is actually useful: making Linux user friendly. People appreciate useful stuff not useless stuff, duh. Their Arch way is shit and must change. Or else they shouldn't wonder why they're stuck in the abyss and no one wants them. I am fundamentally challenging "Their Way".

Your above bolded comment has convinced me that you are in fact, mentally handicapped to some degree and I almost feel bad for giving you flack. :\

anyway, let's be clear, you aren't "fundamentally challenging" anything...lol. You're a laughable joke. If you don't like Archlinux, oh well - it's not for a novice like you who expects hand-holding, anyway... You are not in the position to gauge whether it is "useful" or "useless". Archlinux is very useful. Again, ask anyone who uses it. In my case, i was led to Arch after years of using different distros - for me, Arch fits best / i s the most useful..

yas know, by half your posts it sounds like you actually prefer windows over Linux - so why not just go use that and stop complaining? (especially about things that you don't know much about and/or don't even use?)

Really, i do not know what is worse, the troll or the one who takes its time and energy to seriously reply back to the troll.

Why? because you let yourself to get hooked by the troll, so you respond with anger. This might result in even more people offended , not by the troll , but by you too. This increases the chances of more sensitive people replying against you AND the original troll.

Seriously, let it go.

I replied with ridicule not anger, Alex - you are reading text on a screen and have no clue as you my actual emotional state, so please do not assume i am mad, because that isn't accurate at all

[ninez]

Any chance you guys could stop quoting the troll? (And put it in your blacklist? click on its profile link, the option is there.)

done.

(added to block list)

[ceage]

Really, i do not know what is worse, the troll or the one who takes its time and energy to seriously reply back to the troll.

Why? because you let yourself to get hooked by the troll, so you respond with anger. This might result in even more people offended , not by the troll , but by you too. This increases the chances of more sensitive people replying against you AND the original troll.

Seriously, let it go.

`Troll' is a derogatory term for `child'. Adults do not troll. [1] Consequently, BO$$ must be a child and children often require someone to explain to them how the world works. I don't mind spending a minute of my time to do that. Besides, putting him on a blacklist is not very effective since he can unblock himself anytime by creating a new account.

[1] I'm referring to mental age here.

[ceage]

Agreed. But lets say you see a guy with a shovel digging and then filling back. And he goes on and on. He is really good with that shovel but does nothing useful for society (he may very well like digging). Isn't it better for everyone if you would instruct him to go dig somewhere useful. He still gets to dig and the rest of the people also benefit from his work. What you're saying is that the Arch guys are really into what they're doing that they aren't interested in any other market. They are doing it just for themselves. Sure, it's their time but then again, the time is limited, isn't it more useful to create useful software in that limited time that you have than useful software only for a niche and useless for the rest? Doing useful stuff isn't gonna kill you or take away from your genius if that is what they might be afraid of.

Your analogy is too simplistic. Implementing a feature that's useful for someone else but doesn't interest yourself is not the same thing.

Also, a distro like Arch is not about getting into a market. Products need markets. Arch is not a product. Most distros aren't. They're more like research and/or hobby projects. Canonical is trying to productise Linux, but they're a commercial company. On the other Hand, the fact that companies like RedHat or Canonical can base products and services on some of those voluntary efforts is already great in itself.

If you need to get more end user oriented functionality and polishing implemented right now, your best option is to either do it yourself or to hire someone to do it for you. That might be a dissatisfying statement to make but that's just how open source (often) works. That's what Mark Shuttleworth does.

[Serge]

Arch for technically-minded people? So it's diverting resources from making Linux more user friendly. And we all know how Linux doesn't need that since it's for geeks, or so you argue whenever it fits you. And then you complain how it has only 1% market share. BSD is inferior to Linux. And Linux isn't that great either. BSD is pretty dead. They should either pack and go home or help Linux maybe get a bigger market share. Anything else is badly allocated resources. I meant cancer not as something that spreads but as something very bad.

Yes they should change that Arch way to something that is actually useful: making Linux user friendly. People appreciate useful stuff not useless stuff, duh. Their Arch way is shit and must change. Or else they shouldn't wonder why they're stuck in the abyss and no one wants them. I am fundamentally challenging "Their Way".

Agreed. But lets say you see a guy with a shovel digging and then filling back. And he goes on and on. He is really good with that shovel but does nothing useful for society (he may very well like digging). Isn't it better for everyone if you would instruct him to go dig somewhere useful. He still gets to dig and the rest of the people also benefit from his work. What you're saying is that the Arch guys are really into what they're doing that they aren't interested in any other market. They are doing it just for themselves. Sure, it's their time but then again, the time is limited, isn't it more useful to create useful software in that limited time that you have than useful software only for a niche and useless for the rest? Doing useful stuff isn't gonna kill you or take away from your genius if that is what they might be afraid of.

It appears that you are trying to apply an economic model to how developers allocate their personal time. Your approach has some merit, because even volunteers allocate their time based on value (or so I believe - I know many people who would disagree with that assertion). However, your approach depends on the premise that there is some universal determination of value that everyone should agree to. When you abandon the idea that there are universal values, your approach gets stuck on the problem that what you consider to be important and what the Arch BSD developers consider to be important are very different things. And from there, your statement that they are wasting their time suddenly becomes baseless. So instead of doing that, why don't you target their values directly and explain why it is that their efforts are a waste?

As a developer, do you enjoy working on things you do not believe are important, and having to ignore things that you do believe are important?

[Serge]

Your above bolded comment has convinced me that you are in fact, mentally handicapped to some degree and I almost feel bad for giving you flack. :\

anyway, let's be clear, you aren't "fundamentally challenging" anything...lol. You're a laughable joke. If you don't like Archlinux, oh well - it's not for a novice like you who expects hand-holding, anyway... You are not in the position to gauge whether it is "useful" or "useless". Archlinux is very useful. Again, ask anyone who uses it. In my case, i was led to Arch after years of using different distros - for me, Arch fits best / i s the most useful..

yas know, by half your posts it sounds like you actually prefer windows over Linux - so why not just go use that and stop complaining? (especially about things that you don't know much about and/or don't even use?)



I replied with ridicule not anger, Alex - you are reading text on a screen and have no clue as you my actual emotional state, so please do not assume i am mad, because that isn't accurate at all

The problem here is that you have a responsibility to make sure people interpret your words correctly. His assumption that you are mad comes from your failure to properly express yourself.

[signals]

Arch for technically-minded people? So it's diverting resources from making Linux more user friendly. And we all know how Linux doesn't need that since it's for geeks, or so you argue whenever it fits you. And then you complain how it has only 1% market share. BSD is inferior to Linux. And Linux isn't that great either. BSD is pretty dead. They should either pack and go home or help Linux maybe get a bigger market share. Anything else is badly allocated resources. I meant cancer not as something that spreads but as something very bad.

Are you seriously taking issue with people's hobbies? Because some people want to devote their time to making something they want instead of something you want, they're hurting the Linux community? Market share is all that matters? There should only be the one distro to rule them all? Please...

You are basically saying that the guy who spends his weekends in his garage building a '57 Chevy into a hot rod is hurting the world because his efforts would be better spent working on the next Prius because more people want a Prius than want a hot rod. There's ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with spending my time making something that *I* want. Even if the rest of the world has absolutely no interest in it.

By your logic, anything you do in your spare time that isn't "making Linux more user friendly" is hurting the Linux community because you could be using that time to write code to fix whatever user friendliness issues you see as being a problem. Are you spending all of your time on that now? Then you are hurting the Linux community in the same way as the Arch BSD devs are.

BTW, what exactly do you think needs to be done to "make Linux more user friendly" anyway? I don't really see any issues with the big user-friendly Linux distros that are any worse than the competition from Microsoft and Apple. Give us some ideas. Maybe someone here can start working on a project to fix it for you?

EDIT: Apparently BO$$ is a developer, so I've changed some of the wording to reflect that.

[jrch2k8]

EDIT: Apparently BO$$ is a developer, so I've changed some of the wording to reflect that.

no he is not, he just say he is to try to improve his trolling.

he is just some random windowz groupie ranter with as much technical insides as your average grandma, just block him

[pingufunkybeat]

In the '57 Chevy case it doesn't hurt the world but certainly doesn't help it either. In the Arch example it hurts Linux because people see that resources are used to make it more geek friendly and not more noob friendly. So more and more people will avoid Linux. 90% of the Linux distros are geared towards advanced users. That certainly doesn't help to Linux's image.

You are hurting the world because the time you spend trolling could be better spent making the Linux more user friendly.

What is your excuse?

[signals]

In the '57 Chevy case it doesn't hurt the world but certainly doesn't help it either. In the Arch example it hurts Linux because people see that resources are used to make it more geek friendly and not more noob friendly. So more and more people will avoid Linux. 90% of the Linux distros are geared towards advanced users. That certainly doesn't help to Linux's image.

So if I understand your argument, you are saying that there should be no pro or expert tools of any kind because a beginner might try to use them, find it difficult, and give up on the idea entirely. So nobody should make a violin because violins are hard to play and take years of training to become proficient with; it might scare away a beginner who wants to try music. The luthier is scaring away beginners to the music world by putting all of his effort into making a better expert tool and should spend his time making a higher quality kazoo, which any beginner can play, so that he can get more people into the "music" camp.

Or is that not what you are saying?