Shuttleworth Closes Bug #1, Microsoft's Market Share

[Nuc!eoN]

He should have rather closed it as "Won't fix". This would be more diplomatic and he would have gained better predispositions to join forces with MS - what appears to be his aim anyways. But it seems he lacks even this :/

[asdfblah]

Hi there,

Letter not for ADD folks.

I've been tracking what some major graphics companies have been doing for some time now and the state is appalling, not only for any Linux kernel based distribution, but for everyone.

First the Nvidia goes on war with that Intel graphics based on P III (amazing performance),that requires SLI by refusing the patents or license, so Intel won't compete with Nvidia in corporate segement. Intel responses to Nvidia (and thus AMD) by "attaching" the graphics to the CPU, which basically means Nvidia (and AMD) have to reverse engineer Intel graphics and the drivers (on any OS), which is illegal. That means Nvidia or AMD are forbidden to provide proper drivers for their own product, thus making them not to perform at full capabilites and always being crappy. All pictures or videos have to go through Intel CPU/GPU in the end.

That means that the Nvidia or AMD graphics are at best of a second sort. Moreover it questions the legality of their dirvers, because for example on laptops with Windows- AMD provides unassigned Intel graphics drivers inside subfolder of subfolder of their own driver. If they don't AMDs graphic will not work at all. Not only that- they cannot do it legally so they don't offer drivers for laptops on their support website. They make the vendors like HP and DELL to do that, thus making the drivers extreme old and buggy for the laptops these vendors sell. And HP or DELL are absolutely in no interest or position to change it. Why would they? The product is out and sold. The money is in the bank account. Who cares!

Moreover. It got to the point that even Windows users know now what graphic power management and sync to vblank is. It was unheard of a few years back.

Another thing is that Nvidia is not intersted in doing the drivers for any platform. First its the same stroy as with AMD: making drivers is a cost. Once GPU is out, nobody cares. Drivers do not generate sales. Only framerates and demos on computer shows/fairs. But reality is different. And they get the money elsewhere.

For example Nivia recently build a complete new system from scratch that is selling very well. It functions as a game streaming service so people can play games on thin clients and everything is rendered on that system. If they make tons of money by selling content (royalties, like 3 dollars of every game title that is rendered on that machines) they will make amazing money. So why would they need any drivers for some shitty laptops? Why would they hire bunch of programmers, when they hire two and they make the drivers for their system. The system that makes the money, not the laptops that don't. They may be selling GPUs to vendors, yes- that makes money, but the drivers don't. And once the hardware is out it does not generate any revenue stream. So why generate additional post sale cost? No f... way.


So will Linux based distros receive working graphic drvers? Ever?. No! Who cares about sync to vblank for Linux (and now even for Windows!!!). Keep dreaming about waylands, mirrs or desktop acceleration. It ain't gonna happen. Never. Linux is a post sale cost. There has never been a proper support, there always was video and desktop tearing for nvidia, complete lack of working drivers for AMD and shit for Intel working 3 times slower than on Windows and without OpenCL, wich renders programms like GIMP 2.8.x unstartable on Intel machines. Pair it with non working AMD and you're out. Not to mention VAAPIs, NVDPAUs and other stuff like renering videos on GPU. Keep dreaming.


PS. And now Linux got that amazing gift from Intel, called UEFI and awesome present from Microsoft called Banned Boot without USB. Hoorraaay!

I dunno for how long have you been using linux, but right now AMD open source driver is in a really good state. The problem of one driver conflicting with the other drivers is a windows thing, in linux they have no need to reverse engineer the intel drivers... So, your points are wrong, from the linux side of things, I think. In fact, hardware vendors could promote linux based on this, they would all gain...

On topic: I'm not sure the bug should have been closed. The bug is about linux on the desktop, and the arguments to close it talk about the usage in devices other than laptop/desktop computers... now, we know that desktop computers are on the decline, but that doesn't mean they dissapeared, not yet.

[timothyja]

Seems the Stallman fans are alive and well. It's nice to see how these freedom above all idiot crowd doesn't realise that most people in the world actually like and use Office and it would help Ubuntu if they made it work on it.

Office is fine if thats what you need your the one making idiotic statements about hoping they make a Linux port but invest time limiting it to Ubuntu.

You poor open source fanbois don't know there is a world beyond your basement. A world with more money than you can count. And if you want some of that pie you don't rebel against the system and take your toys and go home. You learn to play the game.

There is no problem making money off open source it even says you have the right to in the GPL. So for the millionth time educated yourself rather than making stupid comments.

Anyway it's nice to see how open source goes to shit when big corporations start to use that word without actually meaning it. People on the street will think of you even more lowly. And you basement dwellers will probably think it's unfair and that they don't play by your stupid rules. And cry. Cause they have the billions and you can't to jack shit about it.

This is a licensing issue nothing to do with being open source or not. GPL means they have a legal requirement to open source the code. Most other licences basically say its up to the company whether they contiune to or not. With most of these licences companies choose to open source because it makes sense financially to them. Why develop and maintain everything in house by yourself when you can get other companies to help out, come on this is an economic issue surely even you can grasp that advantage of open source since you seem to value money above all else.

I'm really looking forward to Windows 8.1 which will bring back the start button. It will probably shave off half of your stupid 'community'.

Lol, you love closed source software so much yet you are look forward to an update that makes a change that would never be an issue with open source surely you can see the irony here.
So when Winblows 8.1 comes out will you finally get a life and leave these forums or will we still be forced to listen to your basement dweller troll drivel.

The only reason why linux has made a few inroads is because Microsoft has been stumbling and making bad decisions left and right. But if they were to make a full force comeback the linux desktop would be forever doomed. And save the bullshit about how the linux kernel is so superior to anything in existence...

Another one for the Bo$$ translator:
"bullshit" = "truth"

Windows has not offered anything compellingly new since Windows XP this is why linux has made inroads. There is no need for Windows anymore.

[ElderSnake]

I dunno for how long have you been using linux, but right now AMD open source driver is in a really good state.

Surprisingly so. I installed it on my Sony Vaio which has a lowish end 4000 series Mobility Radeon recently as I got sick of grappling with the Catalyst Legacy drivers and downgrading Xorg. Not only do I swear power management has improved (fans still run a little louder than Catalyst, but temps were fine) but HD playback, playing Team Fortress 2 etc worked surprisingly well (15-30 fps on High, I didn't even try tweaking it). I didn't even expect the latter to run.

[MartinN]

This is just Canonical preparing the bed sheets for Microsoft. I wonder what kind of deal between them is coming.

If you can't beat'em, join'em = Microsoft Office 2014 running on Ubuntu Mir natively. MS gets to take over the world again and make another 100B dollars. Then they can really close bug #1, in the most literal sense.

Or maybe it's just a bad dream I'm having.

[dee.]

Seems the Stallman fans are alive and well. It's nice to see how these freedom above all idiot crowd doesn't realise that most people in the world actually like and use Office and it would help Ubuntu if they made it work on it. And yes closed source works. Nobody will show you their sources just because you want them to. It's good that Google didn't force anyone to go open source or else there would have been only 3 shitty applications ported from Slackware most probably.

You poor open source fanbois don't know there is a world beyond your basement. A world with more money than you can count. And if you want some of that pie you don't rebel against the system and take your toys and go home. You learn to play the game.

Anyway it's nice to see how open source goes to shit when big corporations start to use that word without actually meaning it. People on the street will think of you even more lowly. And you basement dwellers will probably think it's unfair and that they don't play by your stupid rules. And cry. Cause they have the billions and you can't to jack shit about it.

I'm really looking forward to Windows 8.1 which will bring back the start button. It will probably shave off half of your stupid 'community'.

The only reason why linux has made a few inroads is because Microsoft has been stumbling and making bad decisions left and right. But if they were to make a full force comeback the linux desktop would be forever doomed. And save the bullshit about how the linux kernel is so superior to anything in existence...

Get a load of this guy.

Boss, you sound like a butthurt 10-year old. I can picture you in my mind's eye, crying and throwing a tantrum about how all those open-source guys are "big stupid doodoo heads" because they were mean to you on some irc channel or some shit. Oh wait, did I say IRC? I'm sorry, you probably only use Skype or such, you know, got to be that corporate feel, otherwise it's all crap made by "basement dwellers"...

Boss, your problem is this: you're a classic pantshitting sideline shouter. I've got you all figured out. You're that guy who attaches yourself to the big guys. Like, you're not even the bully who picks on the little kids. You're that smarmy kid who manages to avoid getting your ass whooped by rooting for the bullies and brown-nosing them. Always having to root for the big guys, because you think you get their respect that way, you delude yourself by thinking they will let you have the scraps from their stolen goods if you just kiss their assess enough.

[timothyja]

Get a load of this guy.

Boss, you sound like a butthurt 10-year old. I can picture you in my mind's eye, crying and throwing a tantrum about how all those open-source guys are "big stupid doodoo heads" because they were mean to you on some irc channel or some shit. Oh wait, did I say IRC? I'm sorry, you probably only use Skype or such, you know, got to be that corporate feel, otherwise it's all crap made by "basement dwellers"...

Boss, your problem is this: you're a classic pantshitting sideline shouter. I've got you all figured out. You're that guy who attaches yourself to the big guys. Like, you're not even the bully who picks on the little kids. You're that smarmy kid who manages to avoid getting your ass whooped by rooting for the bullies and brown-nosing them. Always having to root for the big guys, because you think you get their respect that way, you delude yourself by thinking they will let you have the scraps from their stolen goods if you just kiss their assess enough.

Well said sir.

[dee.]

So will Linux based distros receive working graphic drvers? Ever?. No! Who cares about sync to vblank for Linux (and now even for Windows!!!). Keep dreaming about waylands, mirrs or desktop acceleration. It ain't gonna happen. Never. Linux is a post sale cost. There has never been a proper support, there always was video and desktop tearing for nvidia, complete lack of working drivers for AMD and shit for Intel working 3 times slower than on Windows and without OpenCL, wich renders programms like GIMP 2.8.x unstartable on Intel machines. Pair it with non working AMD and you're out. Not to mention VAAPIs, NVDPAUs and other stuff like renering videos on GPU. Keep dreaming.

Ok... first of all, GIMP 2.8 doesn't use the GPU for rendering. It doesn't use OpenCL or OpenGL, the support for GPU-side rendering is coming to GIMP in 2.10 at earliest. So if you're having problems starting GIMP, the problem is not about GPU drivers.

Secondly, GIMP 2.8.x (like any other version of GIMP) starts just fine on both of my machines, one of which has (crappy) intel graphics, the other nvidia. Also, on both my computers, GPU drivers work just fine, no problems at all. I've never seen any tearing.

I think you possibly are mistaken about some things.

[ElderSnake]

Get a load of this guy.

Boss, you sound like a butthurt 10-year old. I can picture you in my mind's eye, crying and throwing a tantrum about how all those open-source guys are "big stupid doodoo heads" because they were mean to you on some irc channel or some shit. Oh wait, did I say IRC? I'm sorry, you probably only use Skype or such, you know, got to be that corporate feel, otherwise it's all crap made by "basement dwellers"...

Boss, your problem is this: you're a classic pantshitting sideline shouter. I've got you all figured out. You're that guy who attaches yourself to the big guys. Like, you're not even the bully who picks on the little kids. You're that smarmy kid who manages to avoid getting your ass whooped by rooting for the bullies and brown-nosing them. Always having to root for the big guys, because you think you get their respect that way, you delude yourself by thinking they will let you have the scraps from their stolen goods if you just kiss their assess enough.

Wow, some classic smack-down action here.

[TheBlackCat]

It's great that they got people from Microsoft on board. Stop with the paranoia bullshit. That guy knows his stuff. And it's good that now he's on Canonical's side. Good things will come.

Right, just like so many good things came to Nokia when they tried that.