BSDs Struggle With Open-Source Graphics Drivers

[Nobu]

Go troll somewhere else please, "systemd rulez". You aren't going to reduce the population of BSDers on this forum any more than you would reduce the mosquito population by saying they're all homo-fags who suck dicks for a living. It just won't happen.

More likely, you'll reduce the general population (i.e., everyone, not just people who like BSD), because nobody likes listening to a baby cry...and since you aren't their baby, there's really no reason to stick around and listen to you cry, feed you, or change your diaper.

Back on topic,

The bigger problem for Wayland support on BSDs, as I see it, is the lack of drivers (due to their use of KMS) rather than KMS itself.

[systemd rulez]

On a side note: I see a bright future for FreeBSD with the upcoming 10 release.

What BullShit
No one cares about BSD anymore. The make up only 1% of all open-source operating systems (even though they should not be considered open source) and that number is decreasing.

The FreeBSD foundation exceeded it's funding goal of 500.000k USD by more than 50% (Where was the news about that?! Source: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/)

And all the funding came from proprietary software companies like apple and microsoft so they can later convert BSD code intro proprietary software and not give any back.

and there are some awesome features coming up (the new package manager looks amazing and imho beats everything to ground Linux has to offer).

You mean the useless piece of shit called "pkgng" which they tried to copied from linux? That shit doesn't even have repositories and according to disgruntled FreeBSD users, the packages conflicts with the ports tree and in fact many FreeBSD users what to switch back to the old pkg_tools(Source: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=37203). So pkgng? Total shit hole.

I am pretty sure, when time comes, those things will get sorted out.

The point is they'll get it sorted in 5 years time and by that Linux has moved far ahead.

Don't get me wrong, I also use Linux everyday and like it very much. But I also loved the BSD's and want them to succeed as well!

Good that you use Linux always put all your support behind it. Putting support behind BSD is like helping the enermy. This is important as BSD's goal is to eliminate linux and help M$ and CrApple so Linux and BSD can't co-exist. One must go and the best option is BSD should go.

[systemd rulez]

That's what called EPIC FAIL.

No, more then that. It's called:
epic anal fail

[systemd rulez]

Go troll somewhere else please, "systemd rulez". You aren't going to reduce the population of BSDers on this forum any more than you would reduce the mosquito population by saying they're all homo-fags who suck dicks for a living. It just won't happen.

I don't have to cause BSD fool population is reducing itself thanks to how shit BSD is.

More likely, you'll reduce the general population (i.e., everyone, not just people who like BSD), because nobody likes listening to a baby cry...and since you aren't their baby, there's really no reason to stick around and listen to you cry, feed you, or change your diaper.

It's more like the BSDtards are cry babies and crying about the fact that all advance features are tailored for Linux and not them so they can't port it to thier pile of useless shit. Seriously they should slit their own wrists cause the world would a better place.

Back on topic,

The bigger problem for Wayland support on BSDs, as I see it, is the lack of drivers (due to their use of KMS) rather than KMS itself.

Cause No one cares about BSD, FULL STOP.

[systemd rulez]

1) First, these are not really BSD based. They took some parts from BSDs but not more than that. They have their own kernels, etc.
2) Ironically, there are no sources. These are proprietary systems. So mumblings of BSD guys about "freedom" is crap. In BSD world either you have to use something wrecked beyond repair or pay to proprietary guys to fix this crap.
Then proprietary guys will "forget" to share source. So no, you can't have mac os x source (there is Darwin bit ir's very incomplete). And of course no iOS source at all.

Here we can see simple thing: BSD only allows to gain something to few powerful corporations. Everyone else getting ... cool chance to work for Apple and somesuch. Without any payments. Really cool understanding of freedom!

They hate freedom and love proprietary software. That's why they set up their projects. To help proprietary companies by providing them with parts and pieces.

[systemd rulez]

About a new piece of shit called pkgng

Myth:

-Makes package management easiler
-New and original
-Awesome


Facts:

-It's a fork of apt-get with the GPL and lots of good code removed.
-No repositories (Used to but were taken down)
-Produces conflicts especially when doing (pkg upgrade)
-Slow
-Doesn't work on all arches of FreeBSD
-Created for building own repository not fetching and installing from project repository (accourding to latest announcment from freebsd)
-Piece of Shit

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Truth is pkgng is too little too late. And will not help BSD but just make BSD more of a fool's OS.

It's just like Nazi Germany's Me 262 jet fighter near the end of WWII except that pkgng more like a airplane cut out of paper and the pilot blows through a tube into the engines and out for propulsion while everyone else has decent real jet fighters.

[Marc Driftmeyer]

What BullShit
No one cares about BSD anymore. The make up only 1% of all open-source operating systems (even though they should not be considered open source) and that number is decreasing.



And all the funding came from proprietary software companies like apple and microsoft so they can later convert BSD code intro proprietary software and not give any back.



You mean the useless piece of shit called "pkgng" which they tried to copied from linux? That shit doesn't even have repositories and according to disgruntled FreeBSD users, the packages conflicts with the ports tree and in fact many FreeBSD users what to switch back to the old pkg_tools(Source: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=37203). So pkgng? Total shit hole.



The point is they'll get it sorted in 5 years time and by that Linux has moved far ahead.



Good that you use Linux always put all your support behind it. Putting support behind BSD is like helping the enermy. This is important as BSD's goal is to eliminate linux and help M$ and CrApple so Linux and BSD can't co-exist. One must go and the best option is BSD should go.

With 10 years of daily Debian Linux Sid I have seen progress and it has been in the form of well over $10 Billion in Corporate Investment into Linux and guess what?

X-Windows, Compositing, etc., are a decade behind OS X. Garbage design from day one. This reminds me of the wars of XFree86 back when Openstep and Display Postscript and WindowServer ran circles around the MIT X-Windows world.

Quartz and Quartz-Extreme replace the Display Postscript with Display PDF and present day OS X 10.8 has OpenGL 3.2 throughout the entire system, while Linux continues to piss itself and slowly get OpenGL 2.1 compliance for KDE, and later on OpenGL 3.x and OpenGL ES 3.0 all once again to Corporate Sponsorship.

Well, Intel, AMD, Nvidia and the likes have all fully embraced LLVM/Clang and are making their products fully available to FreeBSD and anyone else adopting the LLVM/Clang infrastructure.

Whether it's Oracle, IBM, RedHat, Intel, Nvidia, AMD, you name it it appears that no matter amount of cash spent on Linux and it's graphics subsystems ever seems to produce a clean, robust and scalable solution. There is nothing but duct tape everywhere.

Wayland is an attempt to bring the windowing system more in line with it's modern leader from Apple.

And yet, somehow with pissant resources for FreeBSD you guys throw shit at it like it's insignificant for the end user.

From what I am seeing, you pour a few billion into FreeBSD's needs and it'll run circles around Linux and the Gnome/KDE Linux centric user base in a fraction of the time it has taken for Linux to get out of its own way.

Hell, when Debian is making their entire archive LLVM/Clang ready and FreeBSD ready you know shit is happening in the Linux world that people are getting sick of and your types of rants epitomize it to the core.

[systemd rulez]

With 10 years of daily Debian Linux Sid I have seen progress and it has been in the form of well over $10 Billion in Corporate Investment into Linux and guess what?

X-Windows, Compositing, etc., are a decade behind OS X. Garbage design from day one. This reminds me of the wars of XFree86 back when Openstep and Display Postscript and WindowServer ran circles around the MIT X-Windows world.

The irony. FreeBSD's exceeded it's funding target and yet they latest release (9.1) came 6 moinths late and WITHOUT BINARY PACKAGES, they even haven't been able to recover their project servers from the security incident in November, and they still have outdated, old, slow and poorly designed code and OS that had never been fix for their entire 30 years of existent. What a shit group of masturbators... I mean developers.

Make people wonder what they are doing with the money. Oh that's right they are spending it all on beer and wisket for their conferences in which they spread lies and FUD.

Linux on the other hand has made huge improvements to graphics, stable, security, drivers and yes KMS. Because Debian uses old software, those improvements haven't come to you yet so using Debian shows that your statement has no credibility.

Quartz and Quartz-Extreme replace the Display Postscript with Display PDF and present day OS X 10.8 has OpenGL 3.2 throughout the entire system, while Linux continues to piss itself and slowly get OpenGL 2.1 compliance for KDE, and later on OpenGL 3.x and OpenGL ES 3.0 all once again to Corporate Sponsorship.

That's OpenGL's problem, they are being asshole and don't want to treat Linux fairly cause they know they'll be pressed to open source thier projects.

Well, Intel, AMD, Nvidia and the likes have all fully embraced LLVM/Clang and are making their products fully available to FreeBSD and anyone else adopting the LLVM/Clang infrastructure.

All but one(Nvidia) of those device makers don't even support BSD and never will cause it's meaningless to do so. Linux is far more meaningful thus they'll continue to support Linux for the long run which is important for them as desktop Linux is on the rise.

Whether it's Oracle, IBM, RedHat, Intel, Nvidia, AMD, you name it it appears that no matter amount of cash spent on Linux and it's graphics subsystems ever seems to produce a clean, robust and scalable solution. There is nothing but duct tape everywhere.

Ah yes, the classic BSD argument against BSD: "Linux's a mess, Linux's a set of cheap hacks, Linux's bloated, Linux's becoming like Microsoft etc, all BullShit"

Linux is the most beautiful assembly of code there is, it's light, it's fast, it has clean code, it's extendable and most importantly, it's portable (far more then useless NetBSD). FreeBSD by contrast has a kernel thats heavy, messy, outdtae, ugly and so unportable. That's why Debian kFreeBSD can only exist on i386 and amd64 while Linux versions go all the way from x86 to phones to embedded devices etc.

Wayland is an attempt to bring the windowing system more in line with it's modern leader from Apple.

Wayland is an effort to fix the mess created by the X11 devs on X. The difference that Wayland has is simplicity of the design taking the pressure off maintainers. There's nothing about competing like Apple or M$. BSD is not having a share of this pie not because it was made for Linux only no. They don't have Wayland cause of thier bigotness and resentment at teh fact that Wayland was designed by a Linux developer not BSD and so they decide to forgo a feature that is clearly benificial in the long run out of pride and bigotness: " Oh boohoo... We think we so good and all things created by Linux devs are shit". The same can be said for udev and systemd.

And yet, somehow with pissant resources for FreeBSD you guys throw shit at it like it's insignificant for the end user.

BSD insignificant for everything (even servers and gay porn surfing computers).

From what I am seeing, you pour a few billion into FreeBSD's needs and it'll run circles around Linux and the Gnome/KDE Linux centric user base in a fraction of the time it has taken for Linux to get out of its own way.

No, you pour a few billion into FreeBSD and Apple and M$ will become even more powerful then what they are if the money went to linux and GPL code instead.

Hell, when Debian is making their entire archive LLVM/Clang ready and FreeBSD ready you know shit is happening

Debian will probably abondon making thier entire archive LLVM/Clang ready and kFreeBSD as GCC and Linux does an excellent job and it's just a waste of time to put any attention to Clang or kFreeBSD as GCC and Linux are superior.

in the Linux world that people are getting sick of and your types of rants epitomize it to the core.

Why don't you look at your most recent post. It looks like a FUD spreading anti-Linux rant by a brainwashed troll.

[DanL]

Cause BSD is meanless, shit, useless, HOMO and good for nothing

So you slander homosexuals and BSD, and then post a picture of Tux buttfscking Beastie? Interesting trolling tactic there, mate...

[Teho]

Well, Intel, AMD, Nvidia and the likes have all fully embraced LLVM/Clang and are making their products fully available to FreeBSD and anyone else adopting the LLVM/Clang infrastructure. -- Whether it's Oracle, IBM, RedHat, Intel, Nvidia, AMD, you name it it appears that no matter amount of cash spent on Linux and it's graphics subsystems ever seems to produce a clean, robust and scalable solution. There is nothing but duct tape everywhere.

Seriously, what the fuck? What does compile infrastucture have to do with a display servers and compositors? I'm not sure if you have noticed that Linux dominates on servers, embedded systems and mobile. None of which need or use X.org (for the most part). For the companies you mentioned desktop matters only to the few. ...and Intel, AMD and Nvidia making the "products fully available" on FreeBSD? Are talking only about LLVM/Clang because AMD and Intel doesn't provide any(?) (graphics) drivers for BSDs. Companies like Google (the second largest contributor to the project) do not work on LLVM/Clang to improve it on FreeBSD but rather make it more suitable for their Linux work. I don't see the connection between LLVM/Clang and FreeBSD.

From what I am seeing, you pour a few billion into FreeBSD's needs and it'll run circles around Linux and the Gnome/KDE Linux centric user base in a fraction of the time it has taken for Linux to get out of its own way.

Yes because like in this case they don't actually have to write the stuff themselves when they can port it over from Linux...

Hell, when Debian is making their entire archive LLVM/Clang ready and FreeBSD ready you know shit is happening in the Linux world that people are getting sick of and your types of rants epitomize it to the core.

Excuse me, what? FreeBSD moved away from GCC because it moved to GPLv3 licence and meanwhile LLVM/Clang matured to the point it was better choise than the old version of GCC. Debian is doing that because they can and generally want to provide as much choise as possible.