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Microsoft Windows 8: Mostly A Crap Wreck

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  • siride
    replied
    Originally posted by set135 View Post
    This is not strictly true; for example, on my amd64 machine running the main userspace in native 64bit and a 3.3 64bit kernel, I can still run a Mosaic binary from 1998. I have a few legacy applications I still run. This is possible by installing and correctly setting up the required libraries. The kernel does not have a driver ABI, but it *does* try very hard not to break its userspace interface backward compatability (syscalls). This is why even an ancient version of libc5 is still happy to talk to a brand new kernel. Of course, other than supporting 32bit stuff on 64bit machines, distributions do not try to bother with something like this, as their users generally arent interested in retro-computing, and attempting any sort of generic solution would be difficult and involve unknown gobs of archaic libraries.
    Yes, that's the key...installing the right libraries. For a techie, that might not be a super hard task, but for an average user, that's beyond their comprehension. They don't even know what libraries are, let alone where to find them and how to install them. I can run programs from the late 90s on Windows without having to go and download special libraries. Microsoft, for better or worse, has even bent Windows over backwards to make sure that it can run the old setup programs without having UAC get in the way.

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  • daedaluz
    replied
    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
    Isn't it blatenty obvious how this system is a train wreck from a desktop and laptop perctive? Two different use case interfaces that have to be used simultaniously with two different distribution models? Don't you also know that on classic interface mode, you can only run IE as your browser? And if you want Firefox and Chrome, you have to switch to Metro on a desktop computer? And then have office software on Classic and can't multitask propperly?

    If that's not a trainwrecked crapfest, what is?
    Every single question in your post is more or less false, except for the number of software distribution models. Nice going. Besides it's still beta, and according to Michael beats every Linux distro out there on technical and usability terms. Most likely consumers will agree on that, and there won't be a big newbie rush to Arch any time soon.

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  • V!NCENT
    replied
    Originally posted by daedaluz View Post
    What a horrible review. 2? pages exclaiming how Windows is supriour to Linux in many aspects from user perspective and how Windows 8 has improved on all techical aspects from 7. Then conclude review by judging the system as a crap wreck. Seriously Michael, get a grip.
    Isn't it blatenty obvious how this system is a train wreck from a desktop and laptop perctive? Two different use case interfaces that have to be used simultaniously with two different distribution models? Don't you also know that on classic interface mode, you can only run IE as your browser? And if you want Firefox and Chrome, you have to switch to Metro on a desktop computer? And then have office software on Classic and can't multitask propperly?

    If that's not a trainwrecked crapfest, what is?

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  • steveriley
    replied
    Originally posted by Kano View Post
    Interesting way, but needs 2 systems I would have used another approach, but really interesting what you have done. My board has got an easy accessable eeprom so replacing that was the first choice for me.
    Thanks. Since laptops generally tend to be more difficult to tinker with, I consider myself lucky for having two such similar pieces of kit handy. To spare myself from future sips of the flinger, I've backed up each machine's NVRAM variables onto a USB. Never know when I might need them again...

    BTW, I finally got something useful to boot on that tablet! Behold, Kubuntu Active Two:
    http://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthread.php?58630

    Leave a comment:


  • daedaluz
    replied
    What a horrible review. 2? pages exclaiming how Windows is supriour to Linux in many aspects from user perspective and how Windows 8 has improved on all techical aspects from 7. Then conclude review by judging the system as a crap wreck. Seriously Michael, get a grip.

    Leave a comment:


  • V!NCENT
    replied
    No way that I'm installing Win8 on my desktop, because it's not made for it?

    It's great for putting it on a tablet and set up shop in a cafe with WiFi, plug in bluetooh keyboard and mouse and switch to Aero. But laptop? No fscking way!

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  • Kano
    replied
    Interesting way, but needs 2 systems I would have used another approach, but really interesting what you have done. My board has got an easy accessable eeprom so replacing that was the first choice for me. I wrote several mails to asus support then rma that i will NOT send the board but that i want a chip. Lucky flashrom is possible with that board (it got a few comments on the flashrom site but basically it works fine). As flashrom has got absolutely no check you can flash anything. Therefore i flashed an unmodified rom from the asus webpage to fix my weird nic (with 3 possible different pci ids with the replacement rom). That of course killed the correct mac adress, but as the mac adress is just stored in the first 6 bytes of the used nvram i only needed 6 ethtool commands to write the correct one. I dont know if i would recommend using flashrom on a laptop, but it can be at least handy to create a backup.rom - thats something i did not do before and which i really hate that i missed that as i know have got a weird issue that i dont get a vga bios init for the ivb vga - i got that with a bios updated from 0501 to 0651 to 3203 however. I am currently investing one different approach to reset just the raw data of my old bios dump (which is unbootable), but need to figure out how to combine that correctly... Of course you dont need flashrom to create a backup, you can use the vendors bios tool as well.
    Last edited by Kano; 05-07-2012, 04:49 AM.

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  • steveriley
    replied
    Originally posted by Kano View Post
    But: some boards (and more fun: laptops) are out there that can stop booting with just playing around with UEFI boot options. A cmos clear does not help at all now, as everything is stored in the eeprom now. I got a replacement bios chip for my asus z68 board recently as it stopped booting after changeing the boot order, but thats another story
    Yeah, UEFI is cool, but surprisingly easy to "accidentally" hork. See my chronicle of UEFI manipulations on Kubuntu Forums for an example.

    Leave a comment:


  • set135
    replied
    Originally posted by siride View Post
    This last paragraph is kind of ridiculous. Yes, ancient versions of Windows don't work well with modern devices. The same is true of Linux. Try installing Linux from 2001 on a modern laptop and see how well that works. Secondly, I've found that most of my software *does* work just fine on Windows 7, even 64 bit. That's not really true for Linux. We never notice because we always just install software from the repos. You can't take binaries, or installers from 2001 and have them work on modern Linux. It's DOA.
    This is not strictly true; for example, on my amd64 machine running the main userspace in native 64bit and a 3.3 64bit kernel, I can still run a Mosaic binary from 1998. I have a few legacy applications I still run. This is possible by installing and correctly setting up the required libraries. The kernel does not have a driver ABI, but it *does* try very hard not to break its userspace interface backward compatability (syscalls). This is why even an ancient version of libc5 is still happy to talk to a brand new kernel. Of course, other than supporting 32bit stuff on 64bit machines, distributions do not try to bother with something like this, as their users generally arent interested in retro-computing, and attempting any sort of generic solution would be difficult and involve unknown gobs of archaic libraries.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kano
    replied
    It is certainly possible to break Linux systems with upgrades. I know that very well from the time i supported sid. In most cases you can fix those issues, the most generic way of "fixing" d-u problems is repeating
    Code:
    apt-get dist-upgrade
    dpkg-configure -a
    apt-get install -f
    until you don't get any error. thats the basic variant, however when a dist-upgrade wants to remove core packages then something really bad is going on and it should be avoided to try at all. In theory it is possible to reinstall removed packages but thats not always that simple. If just minor packages have been removed, like gimp was removed because only gimp-data was there for the used arch you can install gimp when both packages are available. As i do not use Ubuntu - i only use some interesting parts like kernel (with some mods) or mainline builds, linux-firmware packages. Sometimes i install U to test my fglrx script, but i dont keep that install.

    You are definitely right that you can not see Linux as a Win replacement for the 08/15 user. If a possible Linux user just surfs the web and was attacked by a virus/trojan then this one might switch. Usually you can not convert pro-gamers, thats more or less impossible, basically you can suggest using live systems for Internet usage but thats all. For ppl which specific win app needs it can be enough to provide a win vm - as long as those apps dont need 3d support. Sometimes wine is already enough - wine improved a lot, you can even run Office 2007 without problems. Of course there are much more Linux users out there (or dual boot users) than years ago, Linux marketing helped there. But of couse there will be always ppl who have got the wrong ideas what to expect from the system and are disappointed then.

    I do not think that the new W8 UI will lead more Linux users. Some might just install W7 and praise the old times but those do not switch to Linux. I mainly test the technical aspects, learn a few new shortcuts and want to be prepared. It is always good to have deeper knowledge of a system, it does not matter if it is called Linux or Win, just that Win becomes much sooner boring as you can not modify/tune it the same way as Linux. Of course for unskilled users every system looks complicated thats not the same as usual...

    Leave a comment:

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