Originally posted by DanL
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Originally posted by DanL View PostIf you're trying to play Battlefield3 on BSD, you're doing it wrong...
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Originally posted by Panix View PostYou can't use ATI cards in BSD? Well, only HD 4xxx cards work and only using the open source driver? So, if you bought an Evergreen or NI card, you can't use it at all? CLAP, CLAP... Way to go ATI/AMD! Great support. How are things with Windows these days?
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Originally posted by BlackStar View PostTo a driver developer, maybe; to the rest of teh world, not really. Everyone (beside you) is speaking about "Gallium3d drivers" not "Gallium3d internals API inside the Mesa driver".
I stated exactly four things:
(a) "some BSD developers have started porting the necessary kernel infrastructure"
(b) "this requires manpower"
(c) "Gallium3d is a moving target"
(d) "BSD support for modern 3d is worse than Linux"
You confirm that (a) is necessary and I recall Phoronix reporting on this work a few months ago.
You confirm that (c) is a fact. (New features may entail changes to Gallium3d, the kernel drivers and the state tracker).
(b) and (d) are conjectures based on evidence.
This is getting silly.
The official intel drivers do not use gallium3d, but do require kernel mode setting.
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Originally posted by agd5f View PostLinux barely has enough desktop market share to make it worthwhile, *BSDs have even less.
Originally posted by agd5f View PostWhere do you draw the line?
obviously at this point bsd users are better-off with a nvidia card,
but im hoping you will use your ability to change this.
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Originally posted by Panix View PostI notice that 2D is alleged to work. But, who wants a card with no 3D?
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Companies invest in what will give the best return on their money. Unless there is some incentive (major market, lucrative contract, good PR, etc.) to port your driver to another OS, it's a lot of effort with little return. Linux barely has enough desktop market share to make it worthwhile, *BSDs have even less. The open source drivers are X11 licensed so any OS can pick them up and port them if you are willing to put in the effort. Where do you draw the line? *BSDs? BeOS? Joe's custom OS? Karen's OS?
The main reason the *BSDs had support in the past is because the old DRI infrastructure was so limited it was relatively easy to port (limited hard coded vram and dma allocations); as it evolved into a modern gfx stack with KMS, the bar got much higher. Unfortunately, that old limited interface was barely adequate 10 years ago. It's nearly impossible to support new asics with the old DRI stack which is why we only support them with KMS.
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Originally posted by airlied View PostGallium3d isn't a generic thing. Its just a bunch of driver internals API inside the mesa driver.
The problem with your statements are they are very unspecific and misleading.
(a) "some BSD developers have started porting the necessary kernel infrastructure"
(b) "this requires manpower"
(c) "Gallium3d is a moving target"
(d) "BSD support for modern 3d is worse than Linux"
To get r600g working on BSD the kernel needs to expose the radeon DRM interfaces necessary for r600g, i.e. the radeon GEM API.
To get nouveau working on BSD the kernel needs to expose the nouveau DRM interfaces necessary for nouveau, i.e. the nouveau GEM API.
Gallium is only an abstraction layer. To add new features for new GL things, you have to update the gallium abstraction layer, the Mesa state tracker that talks to it, and then the individual drivers for each hw component. If one of the individual driver components (r600g, nouveau) needs a new kernel interface to expose a feature, then you need to add a new kernel API, not every feature will need a new API exposed, and every hw driver is different.
(b) and (d) are conjectures based on evidence.
This is getting silly.Last edited by BlackStar; 25 September 2011, 11:56 AM.
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Originally posted by BlackStar View PostYou are saying that you need to port the kernel infrastructure in order to use Gallium3d nouveau/radeon on BSD. I am saying... the same thing? I'm not sure where your disagreement lies.
Just to make this clear, what would one need to do in order to run R600g on BSD?
(My understanding was that you'd need to write/port a kernel driver that exposes the ABI expected by Gallium3d. If you wanted to add a new feature, like e.g. tesselation shaders, you'd have to update both Gallium3d and all relevant kernel drivers - no?)
Gallium3d isn't a generic thing. Its just a bunch of driver internals API inside the mesa driver. The problem with your statements are they are very unspecific and misleading.
To get r600g working on BSD the kernel needs to expose the radeon DRM interfaces necessary for r600g, i.e. the radeon GEM API.
To get nouveau working on BSD the kernel needs to expose the nouveau DRM interfaces necessary for nouveau, i.e. the nouveau GEM API.
Gallium is only an abstraction layer. To add new features for new GL things, you have to update the gallium abstraction layer, the Mesa state tracker that talks to it, and then the individual drivers for each hw component. If one of the individual driver components (r600g, nouveau) needs a new kernel interface to expose a feature, then you need to add a new kernel API, not every feature will need a new API exposed, and every hw driver is different.
Dave.
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