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helloSystem Publishes New Experimental Build Based On FreeBSD 14.0

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  • #11
    Originally posted by Myownfriend View Post

    The creator of HelloSystem is the guy who made AppImage and he uses them all over the OS so if two applications use a lot of the same libraries, there will be two copies of those libraries in RAM.
    AppImage is marvelous. Sadly money speaks louder and we are chained to Flatpak and Snaps. The problem with the libraries is something that is giving me headaches from time to time ( I use containers heavily, so I am always in search of a solution to share as much as possible between various containers ). A nice solution was the one adopted by PCBSD, where libraries inside the PBIs were mapped ( trough hard or soft links ) into the usual Unix directories, so it was possible to share them to a certain degree. It would be great if AppImage started supporting this concept.

    Sadly he is very opinionated and, let's face it, basing the thing on FreeBSD means opening another can of worm. So I think this project will go nowhere too.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by Myownfriend View Post

      Even if it were a thing on BSD, HelloSystem wouldn't use it because the guy that makes it clueless about it. He has a long running thread encouraging people to boycott Wayland. Among his reasons?

      That Qt needs a Wayland plugin to support Wayland...
      And that OBS (whose Github he was banned from) can't capture under Wayland without "workarounds"... like pipewire.
      People tried to tell him that Qt needs plugin to support every platform it supports (including X11) and Wayland plugin is not special in any way but yeah, good luck with that. He also refused to add Wayland plugin for his project that creates AppImage from Qt project claiming that there is Xwayland for running „normal” Linux GUI applications on Wayland.. For some reason he thinks that X11 is some sort of core Linux API for GUI (like Win32 on Windows or Cocoa on macOS) and everything that is not fully compatible with X11 is „special” and apps that are using X11 are „normal”.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by pabloski View Post
        AppImage is marvelous. Sadly money speaks louder and we are chained to Flatpak and Snaps.
        I don't think money has anything to do with it. AppImage and Flatpak just serve very different use-cases. It also feels like AppImages are a little half-baked. They're supposed to provide everything the app needs in one file but I've run into the cases where an AppImage didn't launch because something vital wasn't packaged with it, it went to look for that library on my system, and I didn't have a version that was compatible. The impression that gives me is that it works no differently than a typical portable binary that looks for local copies of files before venturing out further, it's just kind of zipped up. It's tools really should completely insure that all the relevant files are package with it.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by dragon321 View Post

          People tried to tell him that Qt needs plugin to support every platform it supports (including X11) and Wayland plugin is not special in any way but yeah, good luck with that. He also refused to add Wayland plugin for his project that creates AppImage from Qt project claiming that there is Xwayland for running „normal” Linux GUI applications on Wayland.. For some reason he thinks that X11 is some sort of core Linux API for GUI (like Win32 on Windows or Cocoa on macOS) and everything that is not fully compatible with X11 is „special” and apps that are using X11 are „normal”.
          I'm one of those people who told him that. Sometimes the way he talks about X11 is like it's the default way that computers work and anything else is a deviation. I've told him that a lot of the issues he sees as both inherent and unique to Wayland have to do with the fact that X11 is all he really knows and he wasn't there for the process of it's adoption. He acknowledged but kind of doesn't know what to do that with information. He'll also frequently contrast Wayland with macOS, Windows, and X11 to try to make it looks like a complete outlier but he's no really familiar with how macOS or Windows works. He's assuming they both have something like display server protocol that can be compared to Wayland and X11 and also assumes that they designed there's more in line with X11 than Wayland.

          I do have to say that I saw some small degree of progress with him though. Someone in his "Wayland-x11-compat-protocols" repo suggested a Wayland protocol for setting the keyboard layout for the current session: an equivalent to setxkbmap​. He initially thought that was a great idea, but after I point out that it would probably be a better to come up with a generic solution that can be applied to X11, Wayland, and non-graphical sessions, he eventually said:

          "One of my least favorite aspects of X11 is that the keyboard layout inside X11 needs to be configured separately from the world outside of X11 (i.e., text console). So maybe it's best to have Wayland just use what the rest of the system uses, and not make Wayland a participant in defining the keyboard layout at all? (Probably I am overlooking some complex edge cases.)"

          It was the first instance of saw of him actually considering that there's ways to do things better than X11.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by sophisticles View Post
            I miss PC-BSD, I thought it was such a great OS.
            Isn't Pc-BSD still around? I think it is called TrueOS nowadays.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by Volta View Post

              Shit license shit outcome. Not to mention mac os is trash.
              License is not bad.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by motang View Post

                Isn't Pc-BSD still around? I think it is called TrueOS nowadays.
                No, they discontinued it:



                I remember when I first tried PC-BSD I thought it would be great if MS bought the rights to it and build their next version of Windows around it.

                You have no idea how badly I wish MS would take a page out of Apple's playbook and take a BSD base, slap .NET and DX on top, layer a DE on top that is similar to the old Ximian Gnome but maybe polished up a bit and call it a day.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by Myownfriend View Post
                  … OBS (whose Github he was banned from) …
                  Ouch, I didn't know that.

                  <https://github.com/obsproject/obs-st...ent-1134053984>
                  Last edited by grahamperrin; 10 February 2024, 03:26 PM. Reason: Penultimate comment, not the ultimate comment.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by Myownfriend View Post

                    [...] desktop icons and background are just PCManFM (I think I got the name right) and the top bar is a separate application called Menu. By default, each folder opens in a new window with no address bar or navigation just like really old Macs.
                    Man, thank you for sharing all of this, I came to the comments before following the links, but was really excited for a second, as the thing I miss the most from Mac to Linux is that nowadays there's no option for Miller columns in dolphin (or AFAI can tell any featureful [bloated, like I like it] filemanager), it is difficult to implement and maintain, and I thought that whatever they were doing over hellosystems could be nice, but alas...

                    Now the excitement is gone

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by DumbFsck View Post
                      Now the excitement is gone
                      Sorry! It's still worth checking out in a VM in my opinion. I've checked it out despite not getting along with the guy.

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