helloSystem 0.8 Released As macOS Inspired FreeBSD Desktop OS

[CochainComplex]

10y ago I liked the look and feel oft MacOS but i didn't like the decreasing product quality, increasing prices and the "cant repair or upgrade the system by yourself" policy. At this point I was almost about to built a hackintosh. But since I was not sure about compatibility ..I have switched to Linux again. I was a once in a while Linux user before but often I didn't like the hassle. Nowadays Linux is a nobrainer.

[Vistaus]

For right now they don't mean as much, but when the day comes that Apple no longer offers an x86 version of MacOS

What about the ARM version? I mean: look at Apple, they're trying to merge iPadOS and macOS, so there might not even be a macOS anymore in the near future.

[BwackNinja]

It's a shame if you're only defining this project by how it looks or whether it functionally replaces MacOS. It is visually inspired by MacOS, but the value of that is rather subjective and easily disliked -- especially to those who like to use a custom theme. Being functionally inspired by MacOS isn't about trying to get Mac users based on having compatibility, it's about liking the ideas expressed through the presentation of the system.

My current favorite thing they're doing is the XDG-ng initiative[1] that includes the "launch" command as mentioned in this article, as well as the "open" command are some of the more interesting technical parts because they describe the current limitations of the XDG spec as well as the nonsense that the FHS is, which makes it so that applications can only be understood using system-management tools like package managers because the very idea of an "application" does not exist -- there's merely a dumping ground of executables, libraries, and data files whose organizations is built for tools to use, not for people to easily understand and maintain by hand.

[1] https://github.com/helloSystem/hello...t-%22XDG-ng%22

[ssokolow]

I didn't know about helloSystem but wow this looks good:

• Client side window decorations
• Menus hidden behind Hamburger icons

And much more.

I agree with those two points... but, as much as I appreciate how nice MacOS 9 made application installation and removal and the like, this worries me:

Disk images: Can be mounted and used instantly without having to unpack the contents to disk first. Especially compressed filesystem images like uzip with Zstandard compression should be used in place of .tar.gz, .zip, and similar formats where possible

If they'd be OK with something like .img.zstd where it gets unpacked on installation, that's fine. Otherwise, they're reinventing my biggest beef with snaps (the reason they're significantly slower to start up)... and, even then, they're still going to have to either maintain a WinSxS-style massive pile of stabilized API versions or sacrifice Flatpak-esque dependency deduplication without the ability to dictate terms the way Apple does.

Also, this is a complete deal-breaker:

Security that restricts what the user or applications can do: If you need this, this is not the system for you. Trying to build in "security" only makes the system much, much more complex, cumbersome, and less fun to use, while the benefit is questionable in many cases. --> Run as root the whole time; or, at the bare minimum, have root-equal rights for the user. Clarification: This is NOT to say that Security in general is not important. It is to say that it needs to be implemented in a way that it doesn't restrict the legitimate user (owner) of the device from truly "owning" the device

To me, that reads like someone ignorant of the realities of security confidently demanding an impossible situation. Yes, security needs to be improved... but there's a reason Flatpak is taking so long with their plans to make manifest permissions a legacy compatibility hack that no application should need to use. Again, Apple has the leverage to dictate terms to their application ecosystem... you don't... and there's a reason that no general-purpose desktop runs the user as root/Administrator anymore.

...which is a shame because I do agree with most of what they're saying.

[cjcox]

Don't want (ever) MacOS, but certainly not this. But I guess it's whatever tickles your fancy.

[andreyponomarenko]

HW stats for 0.8.0 - https://github.com/bsdhw/TestCoverag...8.0#test-cases

[Alexmitter]

I didn't know about helloSystem but wow this looks good:

• Client side window decorations
• Menus hidden behind Hamburger icons

And much more.

Reads like a total shitpost, or the developers are seriously incompetent.

>Menus hidden behind Hamburger icons: Quantitative usability testing shows that hidden menus (such as hamburger icons) hurt UX metrics:--> Use a global menu bar instead.

I mean sure, Hamburger Menus are not perfect. But a global menu instead? A simple game for those developer. I randomly select 10 applications with a menu bar, and they need to find where the "options" dialog is in every single one on first try.

>Wayland: Under development since a long time, it offers no clear advantage over Xorg while it makes things more complicated (e.g, breaks screen recording) --> Use Xorg instead

I love that they mention screen recording, because don't we all love it to just read some buffer instead having a clean API to do screen recording. Especially if everyone can read this buffer any time they like, no access control at all. Yea, Wayland breaks shitty habits, .

>Pipewire: Solution in search of a problem you don't have without Wayland? (Disputed. If it is really "like Jack if it could configure itself" and has "the ease of use of CoreAudio" then it might well be worth it?)

Again, why would be want a clean API with access control if we can just read some buffer. Also, Developer obviously has no clue what he does.

>SELinux: Can be traced back to the NSA and makes life more complicated

That has to be a joke.


To me, it reads like another out of touch with reality BSD person.

[DMJC]

Python and QT, nope. It's definitely not a Mac OS clone, just a poor imitation. The problem is it can't leverage the API features that Cocoa has. Even GNUstep is more advanced. Honestly, someone needs to just take SystemPreferences.app from GNUstep, implement a Wayland backend for GNUstep-GUI (already in progress btw) and implement Pipewire, NetworkManager, Bluez and Xrandr support. That'll hit ~90% of what users need. Throw in a Cocoa frontend for Chrome and Firefox and you can start replacing desktops with it. There's one guy that made NextSpace to do similar for NextStep. But no-one has done it with Cocoa/OSX yet. Kind of crazy when you think about it, it shouldn't be too hard to get most of the Apple open source software ported over. E.g Adium, Firefox, Chrome, OSX OBS Studio etc. GNUstep already has IRC/Email/Music player/Calculator/Chess/MultiTabbed-Terminal Applications. It's mostly just missing an office suite (could just use OSX LibreOffice) and web browser (the hardest one to support).