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FreeBSD Working On A New Installer, Updates To Their Linux Compatibility Layer

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  • #21
    Originally posted by pal666 View Post
    if linux itself wasn't a sad joke, it wouldn't need windows emulation layer
    Fixed that for you. It sounds a little worse when the subject is Wine

    PS: I don't run any of the BSDs

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    • #22
      Originally posted by kylew77 View Post

      FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, and even DragonFlyBSD are real UNIX systems, OpenIndiana based systems are real UNIX systems, Solaris, AIX, HP-UX are real UNIX systems. All can trace their way back to AT&T UNIX or its BSD 4.2 derivative. Linux is a Minix clone at best. Even GNU stands for GNU is not UNIX.
      ​​​While it is technically true that Linux does not have its roots in "real UNIX", the fact is nobody cares about that anymore. Linux killed proprietary UNIX (yes I know it still exists but it is insignificant compared to Linux deployments and market share growth). The fact is, for all intents and purposes, Linux is "the new UNIX" and any deviance from "true UNIX" is nowadays irrelevant.

      Linux strikes me more an more like windows nowadays with stupid containers and systemD.
      The following talk, "The Tragedy of systemd", should be mandatory for any FreeBSD-user that dismiss systemd outright without even trying to understand what problems and use cases it is trying to solve, and not acknowledging that FreeBSD actually miss features that systemd provides. Very interesting presentation from Benno Rice, well known in the FreeBSD community:

      https://youtu.be/o_AIw9bGogo

      Edit: Oh, and by the way, Solaris UNIX has moved beyond basic "init" and has something called Service Management Facility (SMF):
      ​​​https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serv...ement_Facility

      systemd was partially influenced by it but even more so by Apples launchd:

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launchd

      So there you go, 2 "certified" UNIXes that have moved beyond traditional init. Not that it matters anyway.
      Last edited by tomas; 25 July 2021, 02:18 PM.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by JackLilhammers View Post

        Fixed that for you. It sounds a little worse when the subject is Wine

        PS: I don't run any of the BSDs
        Pretty sure all those Linux based machines (servers, embedded devices, smartphones etc.) don't need any "Windows emulation layer" to be used.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by dragon321 View Post

          Pretty sure all those Linux based machines (servers, embedded devices, smartphones etc.) don't need any "Windows emulation layer" to be used.
          I agree, but that doesn't mean having those solutions is bad for a platform. Quite the contrary

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          • #25
            Freebsd becoming closer and closer to linux userbase by 1.7% vs linux 2%...once this works, FreeBSD gonna take the lead while linux support shrinks

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            • #26
              Originally posted by DRIVNNEGA View Post
              Freebsd becoming closer and closer to linux userbase by 1.7% vs linux 2%...once this works, FreeBSD gonna take the lead while linux support shrinks
              Where did you get that number?
              Are you sure it's not 0.17 instead?

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              • #27
                Originally posted by kylew77 View Post
                FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, and even DragonFlyBSD are real UNIX systems, OpenIndiana based systems are real UNIX systems, Solaris, AIX, HP-UX are real UNIX systems. All can trace their way back to AT&T UNIX or its BSD 4.2 derivative.
                tracing is interested only for historians. now sus is posix, which is defined with respect to existing implementations, most prominent of which is linux. linux doesn't have right to use unix trademark, but it's the most unixy unix
                Originally posted by kylew77 View Post
                Even GNU stands for GNU is not UNIX.
                that name doesn't mean lack of posix compatibility
                Originally posted by kylew77 View Post
                Linux strikes me more an more like windows nowadays with stupid containers and systemD.
                containers were first implemented on solaris and freebsd, systemd is inspired by macos and freebsd. you strike me as linux-hating moron

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by JackLilhammers View Post
                  Fixed that for you. It sounds a little worse when the subject is Wine
                  you can't fix it that way, there are substantial differences. linux and freebsd are unix systems, windows is separate world with most programs requiring complete rewrite. windows(ms) is abusing its market dominant position(to the point of being fined for billions), linux and freebsd are in the same boat.
                  if freebsd was good, linux users would just switch to it like they switch distros. but freebsd is not good
                  Originally posted by JackLilhammers View Post
                  PS: I don't run any of the BSDs
                  i do, i.e. i sometimes deal with it

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by DRIVNNEGA View Post
                    Freebsd becoming closer and closer to linux userbase by 1.7....
                    Are you sure you don't meant 1.7% of the UNIX-based desktops? With Linux having the other 98.3%?
                    Thinking in percentages can be hard.
                    😊

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by pal666 View Post
                      if freebsd was good, linux users would just switch to it like they switch distros. but freebsd is not good
                      How so? Plenty of FOSS appliances are built on FreeBSD. PFSense/OpnSense, FreeNAS/TrueNAS, m0n0wall. And there's the big commercial projects based on FreeBSD as well, BlueCoat, CheckPoint, NetScaler, Dell Compellent, Cisco Ironport, Juniper JunOS, NetApp Filer, QNAP appliances, Sony PS3/4, and many more.

                      The intelligent engineer selects the best tool for the job. For a *nix workstation/desktop, Linux wins. Virtualization hypervisor, Linux wins. But for network and storage focused appliance roles, FreeBSD has substantial advantages. Some LAN and Storage card vendors put far more resources into developing their FreeBSD drivers than they do on the Linux side. Case in point, Netflix uses FreeBSD to serve the content you watch, because they were able to serve far more video throughput on FreeBSD than on Linux. Netflix did some substantial NUMA optimization to get even more throughput. Other companies like NetApp are doing the same on the storage side. IMO FreeBSD has a much more performance optimized LAN and Storage stack than Linux does at this point.

                      FWIW I'm an RHCE and have made a career of Linux since the 1990's, but I run FreeBSD for my home storage server, and on my home firewall (pfsense). For any given problem, there is an ideal solution - and it isn't always Linux.
                      Last edited by torsionbar28; 26 July 2021, 10:08 AM.

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