Netgate Announces pfSense Plus With Greater Divergence From pfSense

[k1e0x]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why we need the GPL license.

GPL: Stick
BSD: Carot

You don't need to fear the companies. FreeBSD, PF, and pfSense are all still there and all still free. Companies will upstream to FreeBSD because they don't want to maintain their own fork. People have gotten bit for this, Juniper for one. NetApp looks like they got tired of it and has started to upstream to FreeBSD also. An OS is hard to build and maintaining a fork is just unfeasible for most companies.

I look at it as.. business are going to sell software anyhow, I'd rather they do it this way and leave the core FreeBSD project alone with it's own goals and directions than do it the RedHat way where they build influence and change the entire OS to suit themselves. Or the MS way where they build incompatible commercial products to edge out anyone not using their stuff.

[Space Heater]

He implied that GPL would automagically make anything "open". Another GPL-fanboy/ideologue.
I showed him his error with a practical example. If you get triggered by it, stay on Linux threads.

The "practical example" you provided showed that the code licensed under the GPL forced them to provide their sources, and the code that wasn't under the GPL remained closed. The fact you are having to resort to being dishonest about this is further evidence of you going into damage-control mode. Have fun coping with reality.

[aht0]

The "practical example" you provided showed that the code licensed under the GPL forced them to provide their sources, and the code that wasn't under the GPL remained closed. The fact you are having to resort to being dishonest about this is further evidence of you going into damage-control mode. Have fun coping with reality.

Dishonest? wtf. It's practical life example how vaunted "linux openness" certain individuals brag all the time about (and present it as beating argument in BSD vs GPL arguments) can end with device being "locked down" and software still being closed for all PRACTICAL PURPOSES.
It all comes down to whether device vendor is willing to let you in or not.

[Space Heater]

Dishonest? wtf. It's practical life example how vaunted "linux openness" certain individuals brag all the time about (and present it as beating argument in BSD vs GPL arguments) can end with device being "locked down" and software still being closed for all PRACTICAL PURPOSES.
It all comes down to whether device vendor is willing to let you in or not.

Yes, dishonest.

You've gone from "show me the source code" to "well not THAT source code, show me the source code of things *not* under the GPL" to "well for practical purposes it's locked down regardless of the sources being provided, therefore the GPL is useless". Everyone knows the GPLv2 doesn't stop devices from being locked down, that was the entire reason for the GPLv3 and its "tivoization" clause. Your practical life example shows that the GPLv2 still resulted in that company making their source code changes publicly available, which is a lot more than nothing.

[aht0]

Yes, dishonest.

You've gone from "show me the source code" to "well not THAT source code, show me the source code of things *not* under the GPL" to "well for practical purposes it's locked down regardless of the sources being provided, therefore the GPL is useless". Everyone knows the GPLv2 doesn't stop devices from being locked down, that was the entire reason for the GPLv3 and its "tivoization" clause. Your practical life example shows that the GPLv2 still resulted in that company making their source code changes publicly available, which is a lot more than nothing.

Functionally there is no difference between wholly closed proprietary and partially opened proprietary - where GPL bits have been exposed but thats it. Implying that such technical/licensing solutions are still "somehow" superior (simply because there's been Linux used and bits of GPL) - IS DISHONEST.

My example with Mikrotik is meant to show - if vendor doesn't want to open their devices - they won't. They'll find a way. Bits that have its sources provided are USELESS for end user. They can see very same source packages in upstream repos of respective software packages if they wish so. It does not give them any great additional insight into respective devices.
Another random example. Start selling device based wholly on Linux and GPL - vendor doesn't want users to tinker with it. Sign the bootloader. You can sit that GPL license and sources it provides into your ass and simultaneously masturbate over it - but it remains utterly useless for you because you cannot actually USE it on your device.

Persistent song and dance of certain individuals in Moronix BSD subforums, is constant excessive whine&sneer about anything based off BSD licensed software or licensed BSD being "whored out" by respective devs or used "without getting anything in return" - THIS IS DISHONEST as well. And they do go about it like broken vinyl players - "GPL is good, open software on devices, BSD is whoring itself out and becomes proprietary bad blablabla". You are barking under wrong tree here. I got triggered by another such asshole ranting about it like usual.

[Spacefish]

In my experience OPNSense hast more features (like WireGuard), pfSense only added it some days ago and OPNSense is free.

Most VPN Accelerator Cards (AES-256 hardware encryptor) work with neither, as the vendors of the hardware supply closed source linux drivers if you are lucky, but not for BSD.

[Space Heater]

Functionally there is no difference between wholly closed proprietary and partially opened proprietary - where GPL bits have been exposed but thats it. Implying that such technical/licensing solutions are still "somehow" superior (simply because there's been Linux used and bits of GPL) - IS DISHONEST.

One is having some source code available, the other is having zero source code available. That is a major fundamental difference, I'm not sure how I can put that any simpler for you.

My example with Mikrotik is meant to show - if vendor doesn't want to open their devices - they won't. They'll find a way. Bits that have its sources provided are USELESS for end user.

Source code availability of modifications they have made is not "useless" to end users. If Mikrotik have made bug fixes or critical improvements to the code, that code is now available for users to attempt to upstream or encourage/pay a developer to upstream. Following your logic, any source code is useless to an end user and therefore open source is useless to end users, history has shown otherwise.

They can see very same source packages in upstream repos of respective software packages if they wish so. It does not give them any great additional insight into respective devices.
Another random example. Start selling device based wholly on Linux and GPL - vendor doesn't want users to tinker with it. Sign the bootloader. You can sit that GPL license and sources it provides into your ass and simultaneously masturbate over it - but it remains utterly useless for you because you cannot actually USE it on your device.

You're conflating a device being locked down with there being no use for any source code availability. It's certainly not great to have a locked down device, but having the vendor share their changes is still a lot better than nothing. No one credible is saying that the GPL, or any software license, is a panacea.

Persistent song and dance of certain individuals in Moronix BSD subforums, is constant excessive whine&sneer about anything based off BSD licensed software or licensed BSD being "whored out" by respective devs or used "without getting anything in return" - THIS IS DISHONEST as well. And they do go about it like broken vinyl players - "GPL is good, open software on devices, BSD is whoring itself out and becomes proprietary bad blablabla". You are barking under wrong tree here. I got triggered by another such asshole ranting about it like usual.

If you get triggered by it, stay on BSD forums.

[Volta]

Proprietary treating bsd as a whore? Nothing new.

[Volta]

Oh, and aht0 - moronix who lost contact with reality. It's so repeative.

[Alliancemd]

It's as if OPNSense knew this will happen and made the fork. Welcome to the new Oracle