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FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

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  • #61
    Originally posted by aht0 View Post

    They claim it doesn't. Otherwise they'd be using Linux. Since their use-case is on the side of extreme bleeding edge, at speeds most users never try to achieve - most likely they do know better than you do.
    Anything I put in paragraph after a ">" was a quote of dacha, https://www.phoronix.com/forums/member/32615-dacha , not my statements

    Sorry for the confusion.

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    • #62

      Originally posted by aht0 View Post
      Uhm, do you really think ZFS is only good for dedicated storage box use-case and not for general purpose PC? Really?
      No, I use ZFS on linux for some of my storage. It's just that level of integration and "out of the box" support shines when storage is your first concern. When you also want to get a lot of other uses it kind of gets lost in the wash.


      Originally posted by aht0 View Post
      Look at 10 years old HOWTO's.
      The fact that bad documentation exists doesn't negate the good documentation that exists, and is regularly checked and updated.


      Originally posted by aht0 View Post
      FreeBSD supports about 90% of hardware
      So if I go into best buy and pick 10 computers at random 9 will work? I don't think that's even true for Linux. Mobile devices are particularly hard. There are supported laptop devices out there but the chances you'll pick one up by happenstance aren't high.

      Sure if I pick up a server or workstation it'll most likely work.



      Originally posted by aht0 View Post
      And POSIX is "bad" why. I still haven't gotten around that thinking process. Unified standards promoting compatibility between operating systems are "bad"?
      A mixed bag is not the same as bad. Yes it's a fixed stanardized interface, but it was developed over 50 years ago in a very differnt hardware enviroment and a very different set of constraints. Yes it's been updated, and is a great target for "infrastructure code", At lot of local maximums found, but in some cases finding the actually maximum requires jumping to a new area of the problem space.


      Originally posted by aht0 View Post
      FreeBSD does not use fucking sysV.
      Never said it did my friend. But it was what a lot of linux distro's were, and it was a problem. And if you are going to criticize the linux userspace for going every which way, you have to credit systemd for providing a fairly reasonable level consolidation of certain system-level tools. Sure there are bugs, but no software is perfect.


      Originally posted by aht0 View Post
      Only Marxist, liberal or social democrat thinks that if somebody has done lots of work, they should be able to reap the results of his/her/it efforts for free even if the worker doesn't want to give it away.. Recent Linux conflict with Nvidia only shows that kernel devs can screw with you on purpose. They don't like something you do ideologically - they start trying to stop you.
      Oh please get a clue. Why don't you go violate nVidia's copyrights and see if they worst they do to you is refuse to provide tech support and make it slightly harder to integrate your code with thiers? It was obvious to anyone that cared to pay attention that when linux started doing kernel modesetting that it was going to get harder and harder to properly integrate a closed BLOb. I have zero sympathy. In the meantime, any AMD device of the last 4 gens or intel device of the past 8 just work. (And that's true on the BSD's too

      Open source has a strong business and market case.


      Originally posted by aht0 View Post
      So, your personal car is jury-rigged from 6 different cars,
      OS's aren't at the level of cars, they're at the level of cities, and you woudn't want a city built by only 6 builders.


      Originally posted by aht0 View Post
      Something can't be handled by configuration utility - wanna dig under the hood and edit config files?
      Yes, because that solution generally works everywhere, is easily scripted and replicated, and usually well described by the man utility. If I'm not doing it enough for it to be in muscle memory, I'd rather have it written down, and if it's not a trivial enough lever to be found with a simple in WM search, fincdng, installing a learning a specific config app will likely eat up as much time as skimming the man file. But all this is just as true in one of the DE's running on a BSD as it is linux.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by WorBlux View Post
        No, I use ZFS on linux for some of my storage. It's just that level of integration and "out of the box" support shines when storage is your first concern. When you also want to get a lot of other uses it kind of gets lost in the wash.
        Duh, whatever. I guess integration is indeed meaningless when you don't give a fuck whether your system will be able to boot post some update..

        Originally posted by WorBlux View Post
        The fact that bad documentation exists doesn't negate the good documentation that exists, and is regularly checked and updated.
        That "good documentation" exists on exactly how many distros out of total number? And can be applied to how many other distros - which all use different utilities, folder paths and software versions.. Even versions of the same distro varie.

        Originally posted by WorBlux View Post
        So if I go into best buy and pick 10 computers at random 9 will work? I don't think that's even true for Linux. Mobile devices are particularly hard. There are supported laptop devices out there but the chances you'll pick one up by happenstance aren't high.
        Sure if I pick up a server or workstation it'll most likely work.
        uhm, from PC's, my last 6 or so have worked with BSD without issues. Last issue I remember was GPU support of an Athlon 5350 - which was added ~ year after I got the system.

        Laptops - keep some compatible WiFi cards in your drawer, swap out if need be and you are mostly good to go. Only other thing to watch out for is GPU support, might want to avoid hybrid GPU systems and see first if you can turn hybrid-gpu out and use machine with the CPU's iGPU alone. Not that different from how things used to be with Linux.

        Originally posted by WorBlux View Post
        A mixed bag is not the same as bad. Yes it's a fixed stanardized interface, but it was developed over 50 years ago in a very differnt hardware enviroment and a very different set of constraints. Yes it's been updated, and is a great target for "infrastructure code", At lot of local maximums found, but in some cases finding the actually maximum requires jumping to a new area of the problem space.
        Quoting yourself from below. Do get a clue please. Last iteration of POSIX is POSIX.1-2017.

        Originally posted by WorBlux View Post
        Never said it did my friend. But it was what a lot of linux distro's were, and it was a problem. And if you are going to criticize the linux userspace for going every which way, you have to credit systemd for providing a fairly reasonable level consolidation of certain system-level tools. Sure there are bugs, but no software is perfect.
        Why I can't I? Linux users seem to feel free and even obligated to make sneering appearance in every goddamn BSD-related news thread in here and criticize every aspect thinkable - since beginnings of the Phoronix.
        I have really hard time giving systemd any credit. Most of the time I have touched systemd distros I've invariably found it making my life harder by running me into weird errors and making me spend shitload of time trying to figure out whats wrong. Then they are really good of shifting blame elsewhere - not our fault, not fixin. I rather go use minimalistic system I can expand if need be, rather than deal with monster that has to be "minimized" in order to be usable (disable malfunctioning components, find workarounds). Its waste of time.

        Originally posted by WorBlux View Post
        Oh please get a clue. Why don't you go violate nVidia's copyrights and see if they worst they do to you is refuse to provide tech support and make it slightly harder to integrate your code with thiers? It was obvious to anyone that cared to pay attention that when linux started doing kernel modesetting that it was going to get harder and harder to properly integrate a closed BLOb. I have zero sympathy. In the meantime, any AMD device of the last 4 gens or intel device of the past 8 just work. (And that's true on the BSD's too
        Lol. But Nvidia's copyrights are not the issue here. Issue is Linux devs finding certain aspects of Nvidia's practises unpalatable due ideological convictions and fucking them over about it. And users of Nvidia for that matter. It's not as Linux is losing money due Nvidia.

        Originally posted by WorBlux View Post
        OS's aren't at the level of cars, they're at the level of cities, and you woudn't want a city built by only 6 builders.
        Wrong. Most expensive and complicated portion of any modern car is not the mechanical aspects of it but onboard electronics and software. It forms about 70% of the price of any new car these days.

        Originally posted by WorBlux View Post
        Yes, because that solution generally works everywhere, is easily scripted and replicated, and usually well described by the man utility. If I'm not doing it enough for it to be in muscle memory, I'd rather have it written down, and if it's not a trivial enough lever to be found with a simple in WM search, fincdng, installing a learning a specific config app will likely eat up as much time as skimming the man file. But all this is just as true in one of the DE's running on a BSD as it is linux.
        [/QUOTE]
        Good luck. You dont seem to have had an issue where same configuration utility simply writes your configuration file OVER again with its own data, erasing your modifications it deems incorrect. Then, trying to remove said configuration utility to prevent it from happening may lead to rather slippery road of borked OS.

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