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DragonFlyBSD Lands New EXT2/3/4 File-System Driver

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  • #11
    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
    Yeah because this attitude stopped people from porting ZFS and this out-of-tree effort from becoming the OpenZFS upstream, dethroning Illumos.

    Face it, none is giving a crap about HAMMER2.
    Unfortunately, that. Most of us file system nerds are pretty entrenched in either ZFS or BTRFS, possibly with LUKS or LVM involved in some way.

    And it's not that we don't necessarily care, it's that Linux has traditionally offered a better gaming experience which leads to more adoption rates. Can't keep a geek away from their games.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
      Unfortunately, that. Most of us file system nerds are pretty entrenched in either ZFS or BTRFS, possibly with LUKS or LVM involved in some way.
      There is no "unfortunately".
      Linux has at least 5 different network/distributed filesystems that do more or less what HAMMER2 does, so whoever needs something like that can choose between a large roster already https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...d_file_systems and vendors like RedHat have already chosen their favourites (Gluster and Ceph) ages ago.

      Linux has traditionally offered a better gaming experience which leads to more adoption rates. Can't keep a geek away from their games.
      Linux support for gaming has no relevance for people that need to set up a cluster of servers with a distributed filesystem.
      The fact that most of the distributed filesystems offered were ready for production use 5+ years ago while HAMMER2 is still in development is relevant.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        There is no "unfortunately".
        Linux has at least 5 different network/distributed filesystems that do more or less what HAMMER2 does, so whoever needs something like that can choose between a large roster already https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...d_file_systems and vendors like RedHat have already chosen their favourites (Gluster and Ceph) ages ago.

        Linux support for gaming has no relevance for people that need to set up a cluster of servers with a distributed filesystem.
        The fact that most of the distributed filesystems offered were ready for production use 5+ years ago while HAMMER2 is still in development is relevant.
        I say unfortunate because crossplatform ZFS and BTRFS in the works means less and less reasons to consider BSD and more reasons to stick to Linux or MicroSatan.

        I agree on the gaming/distributed file systems argument completely. The gaming aspect comes from random geeks at home using this cool Linux stuff to play games and multimedia and then using that knowledge to make decisions in their corporate life.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by aht0 View Post
          Use NTFS for cross-platform file transfers? Should work even on OpenBSD just fine. I use same NTFS-formatted drive for data storage and movement between Win10 and FreeBSD.

          OpenBSD could probably use BSD-licensed ext3/ext4..
          NTFS is also my choice, although It's really weird to see NTFS becomes the de facto file system for inter OS data exchange.
          Even if it's horribly slow but it always works.
          Last edited by zxy_thf; 19 July 2020, 07:09 PM.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
            The gaming aspect comes from random geeks at home using this cool Linux stuff to play games and multimedia and then using that knowledge to make decisions in their corporate life.
            Geeks don't decide in corporate life. The moment it's not a startup anymore you get the suits in management.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by pal666 View Post
              it has nothing to do with attitude. code doesn't write itself, somebody has to go and write it. if you need hammer2 driver for linux, you have to write it or pay someone to write it. linux supports dozens of filesystem, most of them were not invented in linux. they just had more demand than clueless form posts. xfs, being pushed by redhat, was invented in irix
              Oh it has lots to do with attitude, starting from top down (Torvalds, Hartmann.. etc), ending with, well - you. Users tend to mirror leaders of their favorite projects.

              Linux's "supporting dozens of filesystems" is a hype. Huge percentage of these "supported" file systems are historic cases, experimental ports (often read-only) and so forth. Read: lot are useless for anything except for bragging rights. That same UFS2 support in there is literally useless, unless you happen to have 15 years old FreeBSD install somewhere you want to access. It hasn't seen any work, excepting maintenance since before last decade. Meanwhile on-disk-formats have changed in all the BSD's. But you can claim you have one more file system "supported", dont ya?

              How many other file systems there are of the same ilk? "supported" but next to useless? Take a look at default kernel configs and see what's by default enabled - and that's much more limited selection. But that gives you plain truth.

              FYI: there's actually current (last updated on April 26th 2020) Hammer v1 (userspace)driver for Linux (https://github.com/kusumi/lh1)
              There are couple more I know of which were abandoned by authors

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              • #17
                Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                Yeah because this attitude stopped people from porting ZFS and this out-of-tree effort from becoming the OpenZFS upstream, dethroning Illumos.

                Face it, none is giving a crap about HAMMER2.
                Illumos itself was at fault by being too timid accepting PR's. That, not mystical technical merits of Linux kernel were the reason of switch.

                I am curious, are you selectively de-humanizing certain people in your mind? There was guy literally half a dozen posts earlier asking about H2. I think he would count as "someone"?

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by aht0 View Post
                  Illumos itself was at fault by being too timid accepting PR's. That, not mystical technical merits of Linux kernel were the reason of switch.
                  Yeah sure, whatever you say. The userbase (and I mean the businness-side) on Linux is larger because perhaps they like Linux more for some reason, therefore also the ZoL community was larger than a mostly-dead Unix upstream of mostly-dead Unix operating systems.

                  And ZoL happened even if Torvalds himself does not want/like ZFS. So if there is enough companies behind something, it will get done.

                  I am curious, are you selectively de-humanizing certain people in your mind?
                  To avoid that, I always de-humanize everyone, so I'm still fair.
                  As someone in a movie said "I am hard, but I am fair! There is no racial bigotry here! I do not look down on ****s, ****s, wops, or greasers. Here you are all equally worthless! "

                  The only ones that matter in this case is midsize or larger company, I mean someone that can fork off some serious cash to employ a small team of cis white males to finish development and then port the filesystem to Linux. That's the ones I was talking about with my "none is giving a crap about HAMMER2" statement.
                  Everyone else is irrelevant. You can take thousands of people wishing for stuff in a forum, nothing will ever happen.
                  Last edited by starshipeleven; 20 July 2020, 10:19 AM.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by aht0 View Post
                    Oh it has lots to do with attitude, starting from top down (Torvalds, Hartmann.. etc), ending with, well - you. Users tend to mirror leaders of their favorite projects.
                    I don't get it, are you implying Torvalds or Hartman would stop me from sending patches because they implement a filesystem from a BSD? AFAIK they are absolutely fine with it as long as it's good quality and someone is maintaining it, which is not always the case.

                    You seem to be mixing up "lack of maintainers" with "high-horse attitude" because that suits your narrative of BSDs being unjustly persecuted and demoted by Teh Big Evil Penguin.
                    Last edited by angrypie; 20 July 2020, 10:32 AM.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by angrypie View Post
                      You seem to be mixing up "lack of maintainers" with "high-horse attitude" because that suits your narrative of BSDs being unjustly persecuted and demoted by Teh Big Evil Penguin.
                      HELP HELP I'm being oppressed!

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