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FreeBSD Adopts A New Code of Conduct Based On The LLVM CoC

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  • #11
    I see the FreeBSD community is back to a healthy state, and prioritizing the important things /s

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    • #12
      Originally posted by AmericanLocomotive View Post
      There was really nothing wrong with the old one, besides maybe the "don't use simulated physical contact such as *hugs*". That was a little extra. The new one basically says the same thing (as ALRBP mentioned), just in not the same very "absolute" terms as the original.

      But literally the only people that would have had a problem with the old one are people who do the exact things it said not to. If you were polite and courteous to others, the original CoC would not impact your discussion in any possible way. Being verbally abusive is a problem throughout the open-source community. It's a shame that gaining the ability to be slightly-more-shitty to other people is considered a "narrow victory".
      Wrong. Those "absolute" terms are deeply flawed and reverse biased. Adding to what Templar82 mentioned, the "Geek Feminism" code of conduct explicitly and disproportionately welcomes and protects just the minorities of various sorts — and in doing so commits reverse discrimination. I, for one, do not feel welcome in projects using the "Geek Feminism" code of conduct (or derivatives thereof).

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      • #13
        Originally posted by AmericanLocomotive View Post
        There was really nothing wrong with the old one, besides maybe the "don't use simulated physical contact such as *hugs*". That was a little extra. The new one basically says the same thing (as ALRBP mentioned), just in not the same very "absolute" terms as the original.

        But literally the only people that would have had a problem with the old one are people who do the exact things it said not to. If you were polite and courteous to others, the original CoC would not impact your discussion in any possible way. Being verbally abusive is a problem throughout the open-source community. It's a shame that gaining the ability to be slightly-more-shitty to other people is considered a "narrow victory".
        In the very first paragraph you displayed how the original CuC was broken, and then you go on to berate the people who wanted to fix it. You must be one of those fascist SJWs who are the cancer of FOSS communities everywhere.

        Originally posted by intelfx View Post
        The "Geek Feminism" code of conduct explicitly and disproportionately welcomes and protects just the minorities of various sorts — and in doing so commits reverse discrimination. I, for one, do not feel welcome in projects using the "Geek Feminism" code of conduct (or derivatives thereof).
        There is no such thing "reverse discrimination". I don't know why I need to point it out among this audience...

        Using such terms implies that there exists a vague group of people who somehow deserve to be discriminated against, or the racist hatred or sexist hatred targeted at them, or even the violent behavior targeted at them. This is of course total insanity.
        Last edited by curfew; 10 June 2020, 12:34 AM.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by curfew View Post
          In the very first paragraph you displayed how the original CoC was broken, and then you go on to berate the people who wanted to fix it. I guess you are one of to fascist SJWs who are the cancer of FOSS communities everywhere.
          I mentioned the only even *slightly* over-the-top part about the CoC was the ban on "simulated physical contact*, and it's really such a minor issue. I don't typically go around saying "*hugs*" on forums or mailing lists.

          It's simple: if you are the type of person who maintains a respectful discourse without resorting to insults and ad-hominem attacks (such as calling someone a 'fascist SJW'), then not a single one of those rules laid out by the CoC would impact you in any possible way. If those rules do impact you negatively (as in, preventing you from talking how you normally would) - then that says more about you as a person than it does the rules.

          Every single rule listed in that CoC is standard work-place etiquette. Actually, not even. It's standard societal etiquette - you cannot break a single one of those rules listed in the original CoC in a face-to-face conversation and not expect severe repercussions for your words and actions. Every single one of those rules in the original CoC has the same message: Respect peoples' wishes, and don't be an asshole to them. If those rules "discriminate" and "exclude" you, then the problem is with you - not the rules.
          Last edited by AmericanLocomotive; 10 June 2020, 12:56 AM.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by curfew View Post
            There is no such thing "reverse discrimination". I don't know why I need to point it out among this audience...
            But there obviously is.

            I'm not sure if this is the irony or not, but you never know among this audience...

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            • #16
              Originally posted by Templar82 View Post

              Nah I found the old one to be very exclusive, I felt I would not be welcome in the project if I was not some kind of "alternative".

              The new one does say the same things, without the weird specifics.
              There is really nothing not covered by:
              • be friendly and patient,
              • be welcoming,
              • be considerate,
              • be respectful,
              • be careful in the words that you choose and be kind to others
              Well, the codes (old or new) both say that everyone is welcome, no matter their sex, ethnicity, sex orientation, gender identity, etc ; this includes cisgendered heterosexual Caucasian males, if this is what you mean by "not some kind of "alternative"". Being cisgendered male does NOT mean that you have no gender identity, being Caucasian does NOT mean that you have no ethnicity. Such CoC also prohibits misandry or anti-white racism, even if it is not their main target in practice. The only people that are not welcome are racist, sexist and homophobic people.

              I understand that some modern anti-discrimination activists do produce aggressive and exclusive discourse but FOSS project leaders are not such activists, just reasonable people who dislike discrimination.
              Last edited by ALRBP; 10 June 2020, 12:57 AM.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by ALRBP View Post

                Well, the codes (old or new) both say that everyone is welcome, no matter their sex, ethnicity, sex orientation, gender identity, etc ; this includes cisgendered heterosexual Caucasian males, if this is what you mean by "not some kind of "alternative"". Being cisgendered male does NOT mean that you have no gender identity, being Caucasian does NOT mean that you have no ethnicity. Such CoC also prohibits misandry or anti-white racism, even if it is not their main target in practice. The only people that are not welcome are racist, sexist and homophobic people.

                I understand that some modern anti-discrimination activists do produce aggressive and exclusive discourse but FOSS project leaders are not such activists, just reasonable people who dislike discrimination.
                I had to look up what 'cisgendered' meant. It's a redundant useless word, is it not? maybe just use 'born as'? Sure seems to use less characters. Less syllables. Or I don't know, maybe just accepting people for what they are and not labeling them?

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by leech View Post

                  I had to look up what 'cisgendered' meant. It's a redundant useless word, is it not? maybe just use 'born as'? Sure seems to use less characters. Less syllables. Or I don't know, maybe just accepting people for what they are and not labeling them?
                  Well, that is the only valid scientific term for that and it is shorter and less redundant to say "cisgendered" than "male born as male" or "female born as female". "Cisgender is simply the opposite of "transgender", as "heterosexual" is the opposite of "homosexual". Sorry you had to search it but it is the same with all technical terms. "maybe just accepting people for what they are and not labeling them" Good idea, but in my sentence, I needed to use such label. While its better to live without having to label people, we still need to do so when discussing some subjects. Actually, maybe if sexism, homophobia of transphobia never existed, we would never had to create the associated labels. In ancient Rome, they had no such world as "heterosexuality", but homophobia also did not exist (homosexual practices were common and accepted).

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by intelfx View Post

                    But there obviously is.

                    I'm not sure if this is the irony or not, but you never know among this audience...
                    Discrimination: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
                    The "reverse" is a try to get away with discrimination. Glad people spot this. Discrimination is bad, no matter what justification you give.

                    >sudo apt purge feminism* (no idea what FreeBSD uses)

                    PS: just had a look into the arch CoC, delicious.

                    "Correctness
                    The Arch Linux community value technical correctness. "

                    and

                    "posts pertaining to Religion, Sports, Race, Nationalism and Politics have invariably been closed. Therefore, specifically avoid these and all divisive topics in the Arch community."

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by Templar82 View Post

                      Nah I found the old one to be very exclusive, I felt I would not be welcome in the project if I was not some kind of "alternative".

                      The new one does say the same things, without the weird specifics.
                      There is really nothing not covered by:
                      • be friendly and patient,
                      • be welcoming,
                      • be considerate,
                      • be respectful,
                      • be careful in the words that you choose and be kind to others
                      Besides this should be considered as social standards. It is sad that some people have to be reminded of them.

                      Somehow: I dont get the no simulated hugs one...I personally dislike getting hugs (real) by non-close-friend/family individuals. But how is a virtual hug harmful in any way? Or does it imply that the hug sender might get fantasies about touching someone in unappropriate way and this is considered as sexual harassment?
                      Last edited by CochainComplex; 10 June 2020, 03:42 AM.

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