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FreeBSD Adopts A New Code of Conduct Based On The LLVM CoC

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  • #31
    Originally posted by aht0 View Post

    I must say I hate and get violent with folks who state that they like 25+C and summer, since I am sub-zero kind of guy.
    This is where I have to point out that weather is a crappy discussion as well. Ever had a Celsius versus Fahrenheit argument?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by paupav
      Since nobody can deny that there are actually genetically 2 genders
      Isn't gender a social concept and not a biological one? (meaning that the number of genders would be unrelated to genetics)

      A quick search gave me this:
      In English, the four genders of noun are masculine, feminine, common, and neuter
      • Masculine nouns refer to words for a male figure or male member of a species (i.e. man, boy, actor, horse, etc.)
      • Feminine nouns refer to female figures or female members of a species (i.e. woman, girl, actress, mare, etc.)
      • Common nouns refer to members of a species and don't specify the gender (i.e. parent, friend, client, student, etc.)
      • Neuter nouns refer to things that have no gender (i.e. rock, table, pencil, etc.)
      Originally posted by aht0 View Post

      I must say I hate and get violent with folks who state that they like 25+C and summer, since I am sub-zero kind of guy.
      I definitely can understand that, Sub-zero was probably my favorite character.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

        This is where I have to point out that weather is a crappy discussion as well. Ever had a Celsius versus Fahrenheit argument?
        No I'm not living in the US or Liberia. Therefore Fahrenheit is never mentioned in any discussion.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by aht0 View Post

          I must say I hate and get violent with folks who state that they like 25+C and summer, since I am sub-zero kind of guy.
          that might escalate rather quickly. "Oh you like Russian Summer I guess?...hello comrade"

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          • #35
            Originally posted by geearf View Post
            Isn't gender a social concept and not a biological one? (meaning that the number of genders would be unrelated to genetics)

            A quick search gave me this:



            I definitely can understand that, Sub-zero was probably my favorite character.
            We I'm not talking of course in this case about rocks, tables nor words that have no gender nor any words for that matter. We are here talking about genders when relating to individuals in open source community's communication and there are 2 genders you can chose from. Either be male or female and don't force people to accept your views of the world and to remember 5235235 pronouns for all the genders you make up.
            We all know what happens when you start forcing people to accept your belief system or your religion.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by paupav View Post

              We I'm not talking of course in this case about rocks, tables nor words that have no gender nor any words for that matter. We are here talking about genders when relating to individuals in open source community's communication and there are 2 genders you can chose from. Either be male or female and don't force people to accept your views of the world and to remember 5235235 pronouns for all the genders you make up.
              We all know what happens when you start forcing people to accept your belief system or your religion.
              Aren't male and female words for sex and not gender?
              Wouldn't the genders be men and women (or boy and girl I guess)?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by CochainComplex View Post
                Somehow: I dont get the no simulated hugs one...I personally dislike getting hugs (real) by non-close-friend/family individuals. But how is a virtual hug harmful in any way? Or does it imply that the hug sender might get fantasies about touching someone in unappropriate way and this is considered as sexual harassment?
                The real issue with that one is the example they chose, and not the intent of the rule. I think they were hoping to prevent people from basically writing vulgar erotica to other users (which I've seen some people do on forums before in an attempt to weird another user out)
                Originally posted by paupav View Post
                You had to use pronouns such as xir, xis, ve, ze etc. remember them and If person got mad your patches could be refused from what I understand.
                Originally posted by paupav View Post
                We I'm not talking of course in this case about rocks, tables nor words that have no gender nor any words for that matter. We are here talking about genders when relating to individuals in open source community's communication and there are 2 genders you can chose from. Either be male or female and don't force people to accept your views of the world and to remember 5235235 pronouns for all the genders you make up.
                Science has always used the word "sex" to describe someones biological sex. Gender is very much a cultural construct. There are some cultures with so-called "third" and "fourth" genders, or even "genders" were someone can freely choose what they want on any given day.

                No one is forcing you to pick a gender that doesn't match your biological sex. They're just asking you to respect their choice. Using a certain pronoun when addressing someone is no harder than remembering a prefix such as Dr., or remembering a name. If my name is Dr. Bob, but you call me Sgt. Larry despite me reminding you 10 times, well that's on you. If you purposely keep referring to me as Sgt. Larry, then it's only reasonable you get your posting rights (or your patches denied) removed on whatever forum/mailing list.
                We all know what happens when you start forcing people to accept your belief system or your religion.
                This isn't a good argument. There's a big difference between saying "I am a Jew, and you need to convert to Judaism or else" and "I am a Jew, and I would appreciate it if you respected that and called me a Jew instead of whatever"
                Originally posted by setbel View Post
                They dropped the language of those activists. Controlling language is crucial for policing people and oppressing them but this new CoC uses neutral language which means activists lost, and it's great.
                ...but the rules are still essentially exactly the same. There's nothing wrong with controlling language in a private online community. It's pretty much a requirement to maintain order and proper discourse. FreeBSD isn't some kind of government entity - they're not "oppressing" anyone, If you don't like the rules, don't participate, it's really that simple. It's a bit different than an oppressive government where a citizen can't exactly just get up and leave.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by ALRBP View Post
                  Now, the new CoC says essentially the same things as the old one, just in a less politically-marked way.
                  I'm having the same feeling. Trying to develop a CoC which is more about contributions to the actual project, and explicit about things like reverse discrimination/etc

                  And I don't like that 1984 stuff about emotion control. Like "be friendly and patient". There are lot's of people with OCD which may say weird stuff from time to time and not protected by such CoCs.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by AmericanLocomotive View Post
                    The real issue with that one is the example they chose, and not the intent of the rule. I think they were hoping to prevent people from basically writing vulgar erotica to other users (which I've seen some people do on forums before in an attempt to weird another user out)


                    Science has always used the word "sex" to describe someones biological sex. Gender is very much a cultural construct. There are some cultures with so-called "third" and "fourth" genders, or even "genders" were someone can freely choose what they want on any given day.

                    No one is forcing you to pick a gender that doesn't match your biological sex. They're just asking you to respect their choice. Using a certain pronoun when addressing someone is no harder than remembering a prefix such as Dr., or remembering a name. If my name is Dr. Bob, but you call me Sgt. Larry despite me reminding you 10 times, well that's on you. If you purposely keep referring to me as Sgt. Larry, then it's only reasonable you get your posting rights (or your patches denied) removed on whatever forum/mailing list.

                    This isn't a good argument. There's a big difference between saying "I am a Jew, and you need to convert to Judaism or else" and "I am a Jew, and I would appreciate it if you respected that and called me a Jew instead of whatever"

                    ...but the rules are still essentially exactly the same. There's nothing wrong with controlling language in a private online community. It's pretty much a requirement to maintain order and proper discourse. FreeBSD isn't some kind of government entity - they're not "oppressing" anyone, If you don't like the rules, don't participate, it's really that simple. It's a bit different than an oppressive government where a citizen can't exactly just get up and leave.
                    1. I can assure that nobody is using Dr. Sgt. or any other prefixes in Open Source communities and remembering it is useless thing. Keep your 824124 genders to yourself, it doesn't show your value and purpose in society as does Dr or as does hierarchy where it is needed when using Sgt. It consists important information for the most people in certain parts of society.
                      It just makes your force people to remember something that has no value to them. He or she is used if you don't know someones role in society. Sgt is useful in military in many ways, but your gender isn't useful information to anyone.
                    2. I am not calling anyone Jew or associate people with any group since I don't care what group someone is, I'm all about individualism instead of neo-marxist values and I call people in gender they look to be part of. such as he or she. Calling anyone Zi doesn't add any value to society.
                    3. should we have gender classes to learn all genders and imagine remembering all those pronouns
                    4. I'm all for preventing hate speech but I'm also for not forcing anyone to force me to do or say anything. Those are 2 different things
                    5. Also much has changed since it is not specific about forcing someone to call someone with pronouns
                    Last edited by paupav; 10 June 2020, 09:42 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Well that looks pretty reasonable and reading trough it I literally didn't find anything to object to. Thou I'm sure that a bunch of people take the fact that I, someone who has been vocal about the potential overreach of CoCs like the contributor covenant that swing between being oddly vague and oddly specific, don't take issue with anything in it as something to take issue with.

                      Thou I still have to admit that I am a bigger fan of the very short and to-the-point nature of the Ruby and PostgreSQL CoCs. Be nice to people, don't just assume everything is an insult or harassment and if you can't follow those two things, then go away.
                      "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."

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