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It's Official But Sad: TrueOS Is Over As Once The Best Desktop BSD OS

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  • #51
    I remember trying this years ago. I went into a circular problem: It used the FreeBSD kernel, so most of my computers would have serious hardware issues because of lack of drivers, and the laptop which ran it flawlessly was quite underpowered, so I ended settling for the original FreeBSD as to have more control of what to install and how to configure to squeeze as much power as possible. It's still using FreeBSD

    I just personally never saw any reason to use it over the original because of the identical Kernel (if I remember well even the ports where shared).

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    • #52
      Originally posted by Copper View Post
      There is, actually. In FreeBSD (and afaik in every *BSD) external applications are installed under /usr/local.
      like everywhere else. on debian those applications aren't external, so they are installed in internal place. because, as i said, it integrates much more software than freebsd. but if you do "configure && make && sudo make install" of random package, it will install in /usr/local
      Originally posted by Copper View Post
      I've kept hearing that towards Linux for a dozen years.
      on my linux all packages come from one place, so they don't get out of sync
      Originally posted by Copper View Post
      As a matter of fact, Linux kernel code is more and more of a mess, just there are more programmers that are involved in the project (partially because they often HAVE TO contribute their code to the project).
      you are confusing facts with your misconceptions.
      number of contributors is a fact, "mess" is your uninformed opinion.
      statistics of kernel contributors is published regularly, and there's more non-vendor contributors to linux than to bsd kernel

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      • #53
        Originally posted by Copper View Post
        As a matter of fact, Linux kernel code is more and more of a mess, just there are more programmers that are involved in the project (partially because they often HAVE TO contribute their code to the project). More commits -> more functionalities -> more customers -> more commits. Number of commits, however, does not directly result in quality of code.
        As a matter of fact BSD code is utter crap and legacy mess. They didn't even have good file system before they got ZFS (which is far from perfect) from slowlaris. They didn't even have proper locking and SMP support for long long time. Linux had SMP in 1996 while FreeBSD got it in 2000. Number of developers does indeed result in quality of code. There's so many unfixed problems in BSD, because of lack of developers. It's not even comparable.

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        • #54
          That aside, I don't feel that FreeBSD needs desktop distros. It is trivial to type 1 pkg install command to get a full desktop environment so it is a waste maintaining an entire distro just for that.
          Speaking to myself I've started using Linux thanks to Ubuntu. Its nice to get some working system to get idea how it actually works. And once I learned how it works inside I was surely able to take my own ways. But I guess it could be far harder and far less probable to succeed at this if I had to do some quest to get working usable system, without knowledge how to do that quest in first place. Sure, you can say RTFM ... but it hard to RTFM without workable OS instance either - at which point thing just doesn't really looks self-sustaining. Maybe that's why I don't think "server-only" OS is anyhow viable - it implies virtually no developers and other competent ppl around, except few most crazed persons who inevitably gets short on resources.

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          • #55
            Originally posted by StarterX4 View Post
            Lol, finally. It was nonsense to develop a dead-OS distro. BSD is dead as all the eyes are kept on Linux for years, and you can't make it better (at least until you have a big amount of money).
            Originally posted by kpedersen View Post

            Yes, that is what Windows users have been saying for years about Linux. Sounded just as naive as your statement

            Open-source software can never die. Even TrueOS can be forked and maintained
            People have replied to this but, how about one more.

            Open source has never been about convergence on a single thing. We have the healthiest ecosystem when we have many different examples on how to solve a problem. Having RedHat, Ubuntu, SuSE, Devuan, Gentoo, Mint, Alpine, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, Illumos and Redox is great because we have so many examples of people doing things differently. And as you can all see from Intel / AMD competition is a wonderful thing.

            For FreeBSD specifically:
            Performance is competitive with Linux, Windows and Solaris.
            Has unique features. ZFS, Ports, Jails, PF, Capsicum etc.
            Uses a different leadership structure than Linux, Elected teams as opposed to BDFL.
            Different OS definition than Linux. FreeBSD is the kernel, the userland, the libraries and applications. (Sometimes called "a full OS", more similar to macOS or Windows)
            Business friendly license, permissive.

            Who uses it? It may suprise you but it's a lot more than Netflix and the PS4

            From the Operating System Manual: (Yes, it has a real manual not a wiki)
            FreeBSD has been known for its web serving capabilities - sites that run on FreeBSD include Hacker News, Netcraft, NetEase, Netflix, Sina, Sony Japan, Rambler, Yahoo!, and Yandex.

            FreeBSD's advanced features, proven security, predictable release cycle, and permissive license have led to its use as a platform for building many commercial and open source appliances, devices, and products. Many of the world's largest IT companies use FreeBSD:
            • Apache - The Apache Software Foundation runs most of its public facing infrastructure, including possibly one of the largest SVN repositories in the world with over 1.4 million commits, on FreeBSD.
            • Apple - OS X borrows heavily from FreeBSD for the network stack, virtual file system, and many userland components. Apple iOS also contains elements borrowed from FreeBSD.
            • Cisco - IronPort network security and anti-spam appliances run a modified FreeBSD kernel.
            • Citrix - The NetScaler line of security appliances provide layer 4-7 load balancing, content caching, application firewall, secure VPN, and mobile cloud network access, along with the power of a FreeBSD shell.
            • Dell EMC Isilon - Isilon's enterprise storage appliances are based on FreeBSD. The extremely liberal FreeBSD license allowed Isilon to integrate their intellectual property throughout the kernel and focus on building their product instead of an operating system.
            • Quest KACE - The KACE system management appliances run FreeBSD because of its reliability, scalability, and the community that supports its continued development.
            • iXsystems - The TrueNAS line of unified storage appliances is based on FreeBSD. In addition to their commercial products, iXsystems also manages development of the open source projects TrueOS and FreeNAS.
            • Juniper - The JunOS operating system that powers all Juniper networking gear (including routers, switches, security, and networking appliances) is based on FreeBSD. Juniper is one of many vendors that showcases the symbiotic relationship between the project and vendors of commercial products. Improvements generated at Juniper are upstreamed into FreeBSD to reduce the complexity of integrating new features from FreeBSD back into JunOS in the future.
            • McAfee - SecurOS, the basis of McAfee enterprise firewall products including Sidewinder is based on FreeBSD.
            • NetApp - The Data ONTAP GX line of storage appliances are based on FreeBSD. In addition, NetApp has contributed back many features, including the new BSD licensed hypervisor, bhyve.
            • Netflix - The OpenConnect appliance that Netflix uses to stream movies to its customers is based on FreeBSD. Netflix has made extensive contributions to the codebase and works to maintain a zero delta from mainline FreeBSD. Netflix OpenConnect appliances are responsible for delivering more than 32% of all Internet traffic in North America.
            • Sandvine - Sandvine uses FreeBSD as the basis of their high performance real-time network processing platforms that make up their intelligent network policy control products.
            • Sony - The PlayStation 4 gaming console runs a modified version of FreeBSD.
            • Sophos - The Sophos Email Appliance product is based on a hardened FreeBSD and scans inbound mail for spam and viruses, while also monitoring outbound mail for malware as well as the accidental loss of sensitive information.
            • Spectra Logic - The nTier line of archive grade storage appliances run FreeBSD and OpenZFS.
            • Stormshield - Stormshield Network Security appliances are based on a hardened version of FreeBSD. The BSD license allows them to integrate their own intellectual property with the system while returning a great deal of interesting development to the community.
            • The Weather Channel - The IntelliStar appliance that is installed at each local cable provider's headend and is responsible for injecting local weather forecasts into the cable TV network's programming runs FreeBSD.
            • Verisign - Verisign is responsible for operating the .com and .net root domain registries as well as the accompanying DNS infrastructure. They rely on a number of different network operating systems including FreeBSD to ensure there is no common point of failure in their infrastructure.
            • Voxer - Voxer powers their mobile voice messaging platform with ZFS on FreeBSD. Voxer switched from a Solaris derivative to FreeBSD because of its superior documentation, larger and more active community, and more developer friendly environment. In addition to critical features like ZFS and DTrace, FreeBSD also offers TRIM support for ZFS.
            • Fudo Security - The FUDO security appliance allows enterprises to monitor, control, record, and audit contractors and administrators who work on their systems. Based on all of the best security features of FreeBSD including ZFS, GELI, Capsicum, HAST, and auditdistd.

            FreeBSD has also spawned a number of related open source projects:
            • BSD Router - A FreeBSD based replacement for large enterprise routers designed to run on standard PC hardware.
            • FreeNAS - A customized FreeBSD designed to be used as a network file server appliance. Provides a python based web interface to simplify the management of both the UFS and ZFS file systems. Includes support for NFS, SMB/CIFS, AFP, FTP, and iSCSI. Includes an extensible plugin system based on FreeBSD jails.
            • GhostBSD - is derived from FreeBSD, uses the GTK environment to provide a beautiful looks and comfortable experience on the modern BSD platform offering a natural and native UNIX® work environment.
            • mfsBSD - A toolkit for building a FreeBSD system image that runs entirely from memory.
            • NAS4Free - A file server distribution based on FreeBSD with a PHP powered web interface.
            • OPNSense - OPNsense is an open source, easy-to-use and easy-to-build FreeBSD based firewall and routing platform. OPNsense includes most of the features available in expensive commercial firewalls, and more in many cases. It brings the rich feature set of commercial offerings with the benefits of open and verifiable sources.
            • TrueOS - TrueOS is based on the legendary security and stability of FreeBSD. TrueOS follows FreeBSD-CURRENT, with the latest drivers, security updates, and packages available.
            • FuryBSD - is a brand new, open source FreeBSD desktop. FuryBSD pays homage to desktop BSD projects of the past like PC-BSD and TrueOS with its graphical interface and adds additional tools like a live, hybrid USB/DVD image. FuryBSD is completely free to use and distributed under the BSD license.
            • MidnightBSD - is a FreeBSD derived operating system developed with desktop users in mind. It includes all the software you'd expect for your daily tasks: mail, web browsing, word processing, gaming, and much more.
            • pfSense - A firewall distribution based on FreeBSD with a huge array of features and extensive IPv6 support.
            • ZRouter - An open source alternative firmware for embedded devices based on FreeBSD. Designed to replace the proprietary firmware on off-the-shelf routers.

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            • #56
              I am amazed in how many people just vomits hate to freeBSD jut out of spite. How many of those have even tried it?

              Even if you don't like it, why hate it? See: My neighbour has a neon pink car and I don't wish her house to burn down because of that. I just make sure not to let her choose my house' s wallpaper. Easy enough considering we don' t even talk to each other.

              Also I know the fact that using /usr/local instead of /usr has been mentioned (to me this is more tan enough to ease my OCD), but I want to also leave a nice note about freeBSD manual pages. No Linux distro I was ablo to troubleshoot without an Internet connection. Actually I even got banned from the Arch forums once for proposing increasing the meagre install text they did put when they decided to scrap the menu driven installer and got told to "just buy a smartphone to check the wiki". I remember my first installation of freeBSD... I screwed it up big time with no internet. Just with the man pages alone I was able to have everything set up,Internet and drivers included in a few hours. Saved me my life having all that offline, seriously!

              Wish that became a standard for most Linux distros, because there is no technical reason not to have decent man pages a la BSD!

              Comment


              • #57
                Originally posted by vladimir86 View Post
                I am amazed in how many people just vomits hate to freeBSD jut out of spite. How many of those have even tried it?

                Even if you don't like it, why hate it? See: My neighbour has a neon pink car and I don't wish her house to burn down because of that. I just make sure not to let her choose my house' s wallpaper. Easy enough considering we don' t even talk to each other.

                Also I know the fact that using /usr/local instead of /usr has been mentioned (to me this is more tan enough to ease my OCD), but I want to also leave a nice note about freeBSD manual pages. No Linux distro I was ablo to troubleshoot without an Internet connection. Actually I even got banned from the Arch forums once for proposing increasing the meagre install text they did put when they decided to scrap the menu driven installer and got told to "just buy a smartphone to check the wiki". I remember my first installation of freeBSD... I screwed it up big time with no internet. Just with the man pages alone I was able to have everything set up,Internet and drivers included in a few hours. Saved me my life having all that offline, seriously!

                Wish that became a standard for most Linux distros, because there is no technical reason not to have decent man pages a la BSD!
                Yes. Idk ppl like to hate.

                And yes, FreeBSD has excellent man pages, it even has them on the source files.

                I like /usr/local, it's a clear indication of something I installed, as opposed to something that is part of the OS. (A Linux only user wouldn't understand that as well cuz everything is hodgepodge there, but it's nice) It's not that hard to get use to it. macOS is similar, /Applications and /opt/local for macports. Different files from different sources are in different places. Amazing. lol

                Also FreeBSD has blacklistd, so it can block bad ssh connections without parsing logs like a caveman. No idea why Linux doesn't do this.. and kqueue for updating directories for apps that is known superior to epoll on Linux.

                No hate on Linux.. Linux has ac wifi and graphics drivers and games so.. each their own.
                Last edited by k1e0x; 04-01-2020, 02:55 PM.

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by kpedersen View Post

                  Not really if you count PS3s and PS4s. But just like iOS and Android, that is a bit of a scummy remix.

                  The FreeBSD userbase is also larger than most individual Linux distros. It also has more developers than Linux Mint for example and that seems fairly popular and well liked.

                  That aside, I don't feel that FreeBSD needs desktop distros. It is trivial to type 1 pkg install command to get a full desktop environment so it is a waste maintaining an entire distro just for that.



                  Yes, that is what Windows users have been saying for years about Linux. Sounded just as naive as your statement

                  Open-source software can never die. Even TrueOS can be forked and maintained
                  PS3/PS4 is not really BSD though... its just a FreeBSD user land with their own OS.

                  I'm more of a fan of Net/OpenBSD since the former runs on almost everything with few exceptions, and the latter is very cleanly coded and is in general a very nice system.

                  Comment


                  • #59
                    Originally posted by cb88 View Post
                    PS3/PS4 is not really BSD though... its just a FreeBSD user land with their own OS.
                    I don't believe the PS3 uses the entire kernel but PS4 does to a large extent. Neither of them use much of the userland (or at least the SDK certainly doesn't expose it enough for me to be able to tell). So it is a little like Android in that regards where the kernel might be used but everything else is effectively proprietary (and weird).

                    Last thought of the day. The BSD kernel will outlive any existing Linux distro in use today. Both BSD and Linux kernels however will most likely outlive us all.
                    Last edited by kpedersen; 04-03-2020, 04:56 AM.

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
                      Last thought of the day. The BSD kernel will outlive any existing Linux distro in use today. Both BSD and Linux kernels however will most likely outlive us all.
                      I would not be too sure of that. Debian could outlast BSD.

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