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The WSL Improvements In The Windows 10 October 2018 Update

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  • #11
    Originally posted by lucrus View Post
    Most of us here are sysadmins or developers (or both), so I assume it's quite normal we often don't get jokes, but I was being sarcastic.
    Apologies. Despite the fact that I included it in the quote I think my reading comprehension failed me and I must have missed the word "surely". Without it the rest of the sentence seems entirely serious.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by lucrus View Post

      I can finally foresee a horde of Linux sysadmins, developers and enthusiasts ditch their preferred distro and boot WLS instead only to be able to edit files with Notepad. Surely that's THE ONE NOTEPAD FEATURE everyone was craving after. What a lucky day!
      You jest, but this is actually a really nice change. Once this version of notepad is mainstream there is really no reason to use CRLF ever again. Great if you maintain cross-platform software, and great if you have less gifted Windows-bound colleagues.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by brrrrttttt View Post
        You jest
        Yes I do, but I do it seriously.

        no reason to use CRLF ever again
        I haven't tested it myself yet: does that mean new Notepad versions do not convert to CRFL upon saving the edited file?

        Great if you maintain cross-platform software
        I fail to see the use case, beyond editing a config file once in a blue moon, assuming it is not a complex one, it is not too big, it does not need syntax highlighting, you don't need a real search/replace feature, and Notepad does not convert it to CRLF upon saving it.

        Given the availability of WSL and the Explorer menu integration, I think I'll start a Linux shell and use vi instead.



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        • #14
          Originally posted by ssokolow View Post

          Her friends are mostly retired artists. If it's fancier than double-clicking the file, it's too fancy for them.
          Your aren't describing retired artists, but retarded ones... if they ever need to open a txt file while they can't understand the difference between double-click and right-click, the garbled text is all they deserve , because it's never a matter of real lack of understanding, but plain old lazyness...

          Most people can learn, but they don't want to, because it leads them to change their habits.
          Last edited by lucrus; 11-06-2018, 04:44 AM.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by lucrus View Post
            Your aren't describing retired artists, but retarded ones...
            Most people is like that, you can't just tell them to fuck off as usually you need something from them, so you don't have much choice but to compensate for their issues.

            This is true also outside of IT.

            Welcome to the real world.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by lucrus View Post
              I haven't tested it myself yet: does that mean new Notepad versions do not convert to CRFL upon saving the edited file?
              Good point, I really hope it preserves original endings.
              Originally posted by lucrus View Post
              I fail to see the use case, beyond editing a config file once in a blue moon, assuming it is not a complex one, it is not too big, it does not need syntax highlighting, you don't need a real search/replace feature, and Notepad does not convert it to CRLF upon saving it.
              The use-case is distributing plain text files, e.g. config, readme, with your application. Windows users will complain if it doesn't have CRLF, whereas once Notepad is fixed that will no longer be a problem.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                Most people is like that, you can't just tell them to fuck off
                [...]
                Welcome to the real world.
                I agree most people are lazy, but I let the real world outside. No need to tell them to fuck off: I kindly explain them how much better is learning to use a computer and I offer my help if they need/want it. If I need something from them, I pay them real money for their service, barter is over since long ago.

                Anyway, back on topic, time will tell how many users Notepad will gain, how many CRLF files we will have lying around and how many lusers won't get lost in their own PC thanks to that new feature. I'm just betting almost nothing will change.

                That said I agree that the feature is a Good Thing (TM), I just suspect that this feature alone won't turn Notepad into anything worth using anyway.
                Last edited by lucrus; 11-06-2018, 06:03 PM.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by lucrus View Post
                  No need to tell them to fuck off: I kindly explain them how much better is learning to use a computer and I offer my help if they need/want it.
                  The "tell them to fuck off" is the most natural reaction when you need to get the job done and they keep acting like obtuse children. You can't just "kindly explain" and "offer your help", you need to convince them it's necessary to get serious, or work around their limitations with your own skills. With the latter being easier, usually.

                  Why are you even talking to obtuse idiots to begin with? I assume that you have a task to do and they are in the way. There is no good reason to go and annoy people about what you think is best for them otherwise.

                  If I need something from them, I pay them real money for their service, barter is over since long ago.
                  This view is extremely simplistic, it does not cover most jobs and situations where you can't just throw money to get someone to do your bidding.

                  For example I'm totally going to pay clients to give me decent answers about wtf is wrong about their stuff so I can fix it and get paid, and it's going to work great.

                  Many jobs rely on creating some kind of relationship with the client or colleagues, you can't just pay them off to like you more than someone else, nor to trust you enough to tell you details about their ideas or issues that would otherwise keep for themselves, but are important if I actually want to get the job done fast/efficiently.

                  If you found some isolation-heavy job where you don't have to deal with people to get paid, more power to you, just know it's not like that for most other people that can't "leave the real world outside".

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                    Why are you even talking to obtuse idiots to begin with?
                    That's the culprit: in fact I'm not. I'm self employed and I can choose my customers. When I realize they are over a fixed level of hebetude, I let them go, or I ask them more money, which usually is the same. However I've never wasted my time to convert my unix text files for the sake of a customer stupidity. If they need the file, they can ask me how to edit it, and I tell them for free. If they reply it's too hard, I tell them the "easier" way costs more, and they reply it was not that hard after all. If they are so dumb they really refuse to learn how to right-click, I'm more than happy to let them find another IT consultant, and I tell them straight away I cannot offer that kind of service (which is blatantly false, it's just the kind way to tell them to fuck off).

                    Besides, a customer that refuses to learn how to right-click and choose WordPad instead, will refuse to edit a text file anyway, be it with the new Notepad or anything else.

                    I assume that you have a task to do and they are in the way. There is no good reason to go and annoy people about what you think is best for them otherwise.
                    Except I believe it's best for me too.

                    Many jobs rely on creating some kind of relationship with the client or colleagues, you can't just pay them off to like you more than someone else
                    That's not what I meant (sorry, I'm not native english). I explain them why it's better for both, and they trust me exactly because of that. When I told barter is over I was referring to my work policies in general: I cannot base my policies on the assumption that customers will return me favours, so favuors are plain costs to avoid. Likewise, I must assume anything I need from others has a real money cost. In that respect it makes no sense to add a "todos config.txt" line to any deployment script: no dumb customer will ever be willing to pay me for that line of code and for its maintenance burden. On the other hand, smart customers do not need that as they're willing to learn how to edit it themselves, how to right-click and many other nice things, maybe even like paying me for a handy configuration dialog or a handy on-site software installation service.

                    At the end of the day, this new Notepad feature will be useful to us only, next time we find ourselves configuring OpenVPN on a Windows PC, assuming we forget to right-click and we feel like we can bear with other Notepad limitations, which is very unlikely anyway. And that's just what I meant in my first post: hordes of sysadmins will (read: won't) boot up WSL thanks to that feature alone.

                    Good feature? Yes. Will that change anything? No.
                    Last edited by lucrus; 11-07-2018, 05:29 AM.

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                    • #20
                      Anybody uses WSL for anything serious? I doubt so. If I need Linux on Windows I'd rather install a full fledged Linux on HyperV, or use Docker. I believe even on HyperV Linux has better IO performance than WSL. Also, WSL being very restrictive, doesn't enable any new usage scenarios compared to other solutions.

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