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Wine 3.10 vs. Ubuntu 18.04 vs. Windows 10 Desktop Performance

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    Wine is not an emulator.

    Did you know OpenGL and Vulkan aren't "direct" either, they are layers on top of the drivers which is on top of the hardware? Vulkan is an emulator, confirmed.

    Adding an extra layer doesn't make it "an emulator".
    The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!


    Whether you want to call it an emulator or not the whole purpose of wine is to emulate windows. That's a fact whether you guys like it or not.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Weasel View Post
      No it's because it uses busy waiting for performance reasons.
      No it does -not-. You need to look at what CSMT actually does. It causes every core to constantly context switch, it flushes and refills every pipeline repeatedly. And while it's doing that it's incapable of doing -anything- else. It wastes almost every cycle on every core.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by duby229 View Post

        The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!


        Whether you want to call it an emulator or not the whole purpose of wine is to emulate windows. That's a fact whether you guys like it or not.
        The purpose of WINE is to implement the Windows APIs on other platforms (mainly GNU/Linux).

        The term "emulator", in computing, is almost always used to refer to software that recreates a hardware platform in software.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by duby229 View Post
          http://www.dictionary.com/browse/emulate

          Whether you want to call it an emulator or not the whole purpose of wine is to emulate windows. That's a fact whether you guys like it or not.
          Windows is not a "computer system" by itself. Wine does not even attempt to recreate Windows, at all. It doesn't emulate the operating system, it implements its outside interface to the applications. (ReactOS does try to implement more of Windows though, since drivers etc should work there)

          It implements the interface Windows has for the Windows applications. It's for applications. An emulator would implement the entire operating system to the letter, at the very least. Wine doesn't do that.

          Do you think that using DXVK on Windows (i.e. DX11 to Vulkan, then render it, on Windows!!) is an emulator too? I mean you "emulate" DX11 or what? Seriously.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Weasel View Post
            Windows is not a "computer system" by itself. Wine does not even attempt to recreate Windows, at all. It doesn't emulate the operating system, it implements its outside interface to the applications. (ReactOS does try to implement more of Windows though, since drivers etc should work there)

            It implements the interface Windows has for the Windows applications. It's for applications. An emulator would implement the entire operating system to the letter, at the very least. Wine doesn't do that.

            Do you think that using DXVK on Windows (i.e. DX11 to Vulkan, then render it, on Windows!!) is an emulator too? I mean you "emulate" DX11 or what? Seriously.
            No, you're thinking about what a simulator does, wine is not a simulator, but it most certainly does emulate application interfaces.

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            • #36
              It doesn't emulate them, it implements the interface in its own way. Implementation is not the same as specification. An emulator would disassemble Windows and see exactly what it does and do it in the same way. Wine just implements the library interfaces and whatever else the app expects (Windows paths and so on) completely Microsoft-free code, so they don't get in legal trouble.

              Here's another example: DOSBox is an emulator. FreeDOS is not. FreeDOS reimplements the DOS interfaces, it's an alternative operating system with the same interface. Not an emulator.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Weasel View Post
                It doesn't emulate them, it implements the interface in its own way. Implementation is not the same as specification. An emulator would disassemble Windows and see exactly what it does and do it in the same way. Wine just implements the library interfaces and whatever else the app expects (Windows paths and so on) completely Microsoft-free code, so they don't get in legal trouble.

                Here's another example: DOSBox is an emulator. FreeDOS is not. FreeDOS reimplements the DOS interfaces, it's an alternative operating system with the same interface. Not an emulator.
                And again you have to look at what a simulator is vs what an emulator is. DOSBox is compatible with DOS applications because it simulates the DOS OS. But FreeDOS is compatible with DOS applications because it emulates DOS application interfaces. Just look at any arm emulator written for x86. They don't try to simulate an arm processor, they just implement an arm ISA. Some of them are more complete than others...

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                • #38



                  Simulation is the imitation of the operation of a real-world process or system. The act of simulating something first requires that a model be developed; this model represents the key characteristics, behaviors and functions of the selected physical or abstract system or process. The model represents the system itself, whereas the simulation represents the operation of the system over time.
                  There is a reason applications or systems that imitate the functionality of another computer system are generally not labelled "simulators". A simulator, in it's most basic form, is a recreation of something "real", but has the genereal acceptance of being "fake" or "unreal". This most frequently relates to experiences and perception.

                  For example, a flight simulator is called as such because you are not actually flying, but attempting to re-create the real-world experience of flying.


                  *Neither DOSbox nor FreeDOS are simulators*



                  On the other hand, an emulator (in regards to computers) imitates an entire computer system on a different computer system.
                  From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulator :
                  In computing, an emulator is hardware or software that enables one computer system (called the host) to behave like another computer system (called the guest).
                  For example, a video game emulator will emulate the (usually hardware) system a game was originally created for. Likewise, an operating system emulator (like VirtualBox) will emulate hardware on which to run an entire OS. DOSBox emulates an entire Intel x86 PC on a host system.



                  WINE is neither of these. WINE is a compatibility layer:

                  In software engineering, a compatibility layer is an interface that allows binaries for a legacy or foreign system to run on a host system. This translates system calls for the foreign system into native system calls for the host system.

                  WINE is not emulating another system as a guest. Instead, it is translating system calls from foreign binaries (in this case Windows) into native system calls.


                  FreeDOS is something else entirely: FreeDOS is it's own Operating System, with DOS-compatibility. It does not emulate DOS, but re-implements and extends it.
                  Last edited by lectrode; 23 June 2018, 01:57 PM.

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                  • #39
                    I think he's confused because the term "emulate" in plain English simply means to copy or imitate something else e.g. the parrot emulates the voices of people and the child emulates his father's mannerisms. In that sense WINE is partially emulating the behaviour of Windows. The reason he's mistaken is that words taken on different or more specific meanings in different fields and contexts. In computing an emulator refers to a far more specific form of emulation, of which WINE is not an example.

                    Another example of this is that in plain, common English people often use the word animal to refer to animals that aren't human. In this context people also consider insects a separate category to animals. However in biology, both insects and humans are types of animal.

                    Context matters.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post
                      I think he's confused because the term "emulate" in plain English simply means to copy or imitate something else e.g. the parrot emulates the voices of people and the child emulates his father's mannerisms. In that sense WINE is partially emulating the behaviour of Windows. The reason he's mistaken is that words taken on different or more specific meanings in different fields and contexts. In computing an emulator refers to a far more specific form of emulation, of which WINE is not an example.

                      Another example of this is that in plain, common English people often use the word animal to refer to animals that aren't human. In this context people also consider insects a separate category to animals. However in biology, both insects and humans are types of animal.

                      Context matters.
                      But the definition he linked has a specific meaning for computers! He probably read only the first definition and thought it applies everywhere.

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