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Mesa Git Should Now Work With Intel/RADV Vulkan For Doom Under Wine

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  • #11
    Originally posted by Farmboy0 View Post
    This is a horrible idea, working around application bugs in the driver, no matter what or who caused it.
    Make one game engine and single one version of it which is "perfect" one. One that also all VK apps *must* use and you will fix an issue

    Instead you have hundreds of engines, versions, revisions... that is like hundreds of people go to medic and are claimed equal healty all around, well they are not. On average they might be enough to pass required tests you have setted up currently, but some of them would need different workarounds anyway

    Horrible idea is to expect how anybody can fix themselfs all the time even without medic Say, John Rambo is character that exist only in movies, reality is not like that Otherwise i am afraid only fictional characters like him will use your API properly
    Last edited by dungeon; 21 June 2017, 05:30 AM.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by VikingGe View Post
      You shouldn't blame either, since this was apparently caused by the shader compiler that ships with the Vulkan SDK. Doom developers probably won't care about the generated SPIR-V, and the drivers aren't doing anything wrong if they magically make something work that isn't even specified. It might even be coincidence that it works on those drivers.


      a) If you are coding for Vulkan, you most certainly should read the spec. Vulkan spec is more like an API documentation and therefore very developer-friendly, you probably won't get very far without it in the first place.
      b) Use validation layers, that's what they are for.
      c) Test on as many implementations as possible.

      But none of that would have prevented this particular problem from happening.
      Except that if proprietary drivers hadn't worked around this earlier (they obviously have), the game would have looked wrong for everyone and would have been promptly fixed

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      • #13
        Originally posted by dungeon View Post

        Trends are always bad, as people are never perfect nor will ever be.

        Expecting that any APIs are perfect is plain crazy, do anyone claim how all the way from initial API version up to the very recent one everything was correct and that drivers were correct all the time? Esspecially early adopters app devs who deal with unfinished API, unfinished alpha/beta drivers, sometimes they even want to do exactly what current API does not but is in current discussion and might be or not be allowed in future, etc...

        If nVidia and AMD blobs alows that and don't complain, well who are you to claim that they are wrong... and that even by running app which is not even native

        I don't blame anybody, people nor what people do is never perfect and if someone wanna claim the opposite he can find something interesting in his ass - there is some rigorous shit there isn't it
        Do you have any idea what SPECIFICATION means, or will need a colorful drawing?

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        • #14
          Originally posted by dungeon View Post

          Make one game engine and single one version of it which is "perfect" one. One that also all VK apps *must* use and you will fix an issue

          Instead you have hundreds of engines, versions, revisions... that is like hundreds of people go to medic and are claimed equal healty all around, well they are not. On average they might be enough to pass required tests you have setted up currently, but some of them would need different workarounds anyway

          Horrible idea is to expect how anybody can fix themselfs all the time even without medic Say, John Rambo is character that exist only in movies, reality is not like that Otherwise i am afraid only fictional characters like him will use your API properly
          Pinpoint me where/who claimed that we need "perfect" engines! Ever heard of software evolution and software updates? Yeah, we can even do it over the internet instantly. As much as I love ID, it is their fault for not proving a game that works over the CURRENT Vulkan specification. If we keep workarounding client issues, we will end up in a mess like in OpenGL, consuming precious developer time for support in the future.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by Drago View Post

            Do you have any idea what SPECIFICATION means, or will need a colorful drawing?
            I know what SPECIFICATION means, it is something that hunreads of people read and understands differently, so you need further and further revisions and clarifications until majority have similiar view

            In between that process all missunderstandings and bugs should be supported, not only glorious final neverending revision of it.

            I also understand if you don't have resources, you can choose to support only very recent specs and ignore anything else what happened before
            Last edited by dungeon; 21 June 2017, 06:26 AM.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by dungeon View Post

              I know what SPECIFICATION means, it is something that hunreads of people read and understands differently, so you need further and further revisions and clarifications until majority have similiar view

              In between that process all missunderstandings and bugs should be supported, not only glorious final neverending revision of it.
              Yes, I agree that Vulkan spec will add more clarifications, but alive and kicking games must complain at least with v1.0. The thing is that such shader recompile is trivial thing to do, don't understand why ID don't make an update. Maybe some driver vendors replaced original Doom shaders for optimization ( yes, another client specific workarounds for 5 FPS more ), and changing game shaders will need driver specific optimization changes.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by Drago View Post
                The thing is that such shader recompile is trivial thing to do, don't understand why ID don't make an update.
                I fully understand why they don't, because game targets Windows and work on nVidia and AMD drivers... so what else is need to be done Requirements list AMD or nVidia cards and drivers, running on Windows so that is it. VK is also just alternative renderer, if that does not work user should pick another one.

                Now you wanna run it on Linux via WINE, also use different hardware and drivers and complain how something is incorrect per you. So they should fix game which don't work per current specs on something totally unsupported

                If they make Linux port and explicitly say Mesa supported, well that is a point where we should complain.
                Last edited by dungeon; 21 June 2017, 07:23 AM.

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                • #18
                  Why can't ANV/RADV make use of .drirc for such hacks?

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by theghost View Post
                    Why can't ANV/RADV make use of .drirc for such hacks?
                    Because it would be precedent to target .exe games there officially, which does not mean user can't do something about it Also steam might not always like that, might require SteamAppId:number etc...

                    On average running Windows apps under Wine is giant mess, sort of it might work but who will support that really. So, it also something that Valve and many others officially does not support.
                    Last edited by dungeon; 21 June 2017, 07:47 AM.

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                    • #20
                      Sad news
                      ## VGA ##
                      AMD: X1950XTX, HD3870, HD5870
                      Intel: GMA45, HD3000 (Core i5 2500K)

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