Solus Linux Working On A Flatpak-Based, Optimized Steam Runtime

[duby229]

I don't understand the fuss with solus. From what I have seen it is a huge waste of time reinventing the wheels that have already been reinvented so many times in the Linux space. It is supposed to be independent, however in the worst possible ways. First and foremost they have choosen to use yet another package format and their own package repositories. Like we hadn't already too many centralized silos of software repositories. Secondly bungie. It is yet another environment based on Gnome technology but different. I can sympathize how and why this needs to exist. Personally I have criticized Gnome 3 a lot. It is the worst desktop environment ever in every aspect and that has left the room for all the countless attempts that seem to believe they can provide better user workflows and experience. However, unless they also have a big financial backing, all such efforts are doomed to fail IMO. That includes elementary, cinamon, whatever.

These are the reasons I think that Valve won't and shouldn't become involved efforts like Solus. Not because they are bad, but because it is a waste of energy. Instead, I think that the best Valve could do is make a strategic alliance with a dominant desktop distributor, like Canonical, work together in alignment and create synergies that can drive the adoption of desktop linux to the masses. They are already so close, since both efforts are based on Debian roots, that I believe it will be a shame if they don't.

So you don't think that making standards is the solution, but rather that making monopolies is the solution? At least that's how I read it.

[ikey_solus]

I don't understand the fuss with solus. From what I have seen it is a huge waste of time reinventing the wheels that have already been reinvented so many times in the Linux space. It is supposed to be independent, however in the worst possible ways. First and foremost they have choosen to use yet another package format and their own package repositories. Like we hadn't already too many centralized silos of software repositories. Secondly bungie. It is yet another environment based on Gnome technology but different. I can sympathize how and why this needs to exist. Personally I have criticized Gnome 3 a lot. It is the worst desktop environment ever in every aspect and that has left the room for all the countless attempts that seem to believe they can provide better user workflows and experience. However, unless they also have a big financial backing, all such efforts are doomed to fail IMO. That includes elementary, cinamon, whatever.

These are the reasons I think that Valve won't and shouldn't become involved efforts like Solus. Not because they are bad, but because it is a waste of energy. Instead, I think that the best Valve could do is make a strategic alliance with a dominant desktop distributor, like Canonical, work together in alignment and create synergies that can drive the adoption of desktop linux to the masses. They are already so close, since both efforts are based on Debian roots, that I believe it will be a shame if they don't.

If you're going to give a reason why something is bad, give an actual reason instead of blowing hot air and making yourself look stupid. Additionally if you're going to throw such a hot topic as financial backing into the room, you need to actually back that up with rationale, not just "just cuz." Unlike the 480 wallpaper respins of the world, Solus isn't in this to make money. We have financial freedom and independence from shareholders. There are no sad little men to answer to whose pockets I must line This gives me more freedom to innovate and change what needs changing.

Instead you propose that Linux stagnates, and that Valve promotes a desktop monopoly with "dominant" distributors (also seriously, "synergies"?).
Let me put this in the politest possible sense..

If the current "dominators" were able to do what needed doing, you would've had your "year of the Linux desktop" a long time ago by now.

[zoomblab]

So you don't think that making standards is the solution, but rather that making monopolies is the solution? At least that's how I read it.

In the case of Steam there is no standard to speak of. Steam is a proprietary technology owned and controlled completely by Valve, and I bet they want it to stay that way. As a matter of fact I think this kind of proposal would not be welcome, from my hypothetical Valve perspective of course.

What if there were a way for Steam to provide its own optimized runtime, and ABI compatibility? ...
Would Valve be open to viewing and testing such a system? Created by yours truly, of course.
The way I see it is that Valve is bending over backwards trying to keep this runtime system together, and there isn't a viable cohesive measure in place between all the differing distros. What if you leave that stuff for us distro-heads to work out, and we present you with something that ...

Effectively, we're going to produce a gaming specific runtime that is created with every intention of being entirely ABI compatible for the Steam runtime. The difference being is that it will replace the runtime used by Steam currently ...
It will leverage the Solus work on build machinery to provide a highly optimized runtime and SDK ...
Additionally, game developers will be able to leverage the SDK for this runtime to build against and test.

This is lovely. They want to take the responsibility of providing the core underlying technology of what makes Valve's prime platform work. Maybe I am wrong, but I can imagine that Valve will not want to delegate this responsibility, and effectively themselves dependent on external entities and distribution whims, for guaranteeing their platform works as expected.

[ikey_solus]

If you're going to give a reason why something is bad, give an actual reason instead of blowing hot air and making yourself look stupid. Additionally if you're going to throw such a hot topic as financial backing into the room, you need to actually back that up with rationale, not just "just cuz." Unlike the 480 wallpaper respins of the world, Solus isn't in this to make money. We have financial freedom and independence from shareholders. There are no sad little men to answer to whose pockets I must line This gives me more freedom to innovate and change what needs changing.

Instead you propose that Linux stagnates, and that Valve promotes a desktop monopoly with "dominant" distributors (also seriously, "synergies"?).
Let me put this in the politest possible sense..

If the current "dominators" were able to do what needed doing, you would've had your "year of the Linux desktop" a long time ago by now.

And, now for something different, I give the opposing view to the expected view:

The truth is, the vast majority of us involved in Linux feel the same. We all feel some level of frustration. It almost feels like a "fight against the system" at times. The reality is many out there are doing work (Including Canonical, btw!). It is these frustrations and passions that actually drive us. We all strive for improvement, to provide the best that we can.

Without passion, there is no point. It is this passion that drives me. I'm not reinventing anything, fwiw. I'm streamlining existing concepts. Much of what Solus does isn't necessarily "new", it's just about applying things in a different way to find the most optimal solution.

[ikey_solus]

This is lovely. They want to take the responsibility of providing the core underlying technology of what makes Valve's prime platform work. Maybe I am wrong, but I can imagine that Valve will not want to delegate this responsibility, and effectively themselves dependent on external entities and distribution whims, for guaranteeing their platform works as expected.

Yeah you're kinda playing it fast and loose with the interpretation here I notice you didn't quote the bit where I said they could give orders on the specifications. Also note how I said (and you removed it from your quote) that it would be to provide them with the *demonstration*. I've no issues with handing it over to them, that much is obvious. What I'm doing is the R&D side from a viable perspective and presenting solutions.

[LEW21]

Oh, no, I want to be able to update my driver for the new goodies.
An interfacing library can maintain ABI, that's a nice solution.

Then just update the runtime to the newer version, which contains the latest driver. Mesa versions are released every 3 months, Valve could simply release new runtime after each Mesa release.

[Passso]

That's a flatpack delivering flatpacked-like flatpackets-like. This recursivity makes me think about this recursivity that makes me think about this recursivity.

[starshipeleven]

As a matter of fact I think this kind of proposal would not be welcome, from my hypothetical Valve perspective of course.

Why? Steam is like Play store, Valve (just as Google) has all good reasons to let you do whatever with it, as long as it brings them more sales through the store. Steam is official only on Ubuntu (some specific versions) and in SteamOS (obviously), outside of these two distros it's already installed through third-party efforts.

Maybe I am wrong, but I can imagine that Valve will not want to delegate this responsibility, and effectively themselves dependent on external entities and distribution whims, for guaranteeing their platform works as expected.

This is what happens already, outside Ubuntu and SteamOS the Steam client is not official, so it's running through "external entities and distribution whims".

[MoonMoon]

@ikey_solus This article made me interested in your distribution, but before I give it a try I want to know if the software I use use is available. Is there a way to browse your package repository without installing the distribution? I couldn't find a link on your website.

[rdr8]

Considering how relatively little money Valve make from Linux gamers and how invested they are in the OS already, I imagine they welcome any attempt to advance the platform. That IS why they make the code available, correct? That any of this exists at all seems improbable. Without folks like Valve and Ikey and his crew, how would we slay all the robots?

Solus is really nice. Thank you.