Ubuntu 16.10 Isn't Going To Use Mir / Unity 8 By Default

[thatguruguy]

I dont understand ubuntu. I am not a huge fan of systemds policy to absorb everything(doesnt seem very unix-like) but why does ubuntu feel the need to reinvent the wheel instead of helping development on wayland and systemd? They are just hurting themselves and linux in the end. Wayland could have been in a better state and now we have two pieces of software being slow to deliver.

Not sure how systemd is relevant to this discussion. Even if it were relevant, Ubuntu now uses systemd. Unless you're referring to the fact that Ubuntu used to use upstart, which they developed before systemd.

What point are you trying to make, exactly?

[nanonyme]

Not sure how systemd is relevant to this discussion. Even if it were relevant, Ubuntu now uses systemd. Unless you're referring to the fact that Ubuntu used to use upstart, which they developed before systemd.

What point are you trying to make, exactly?

Do remember the facts. Canonical only dropped Upstart after they failed to damn Debian into remaining with sysvinit indefinitely. Upstart has good sysvinit compatibility as does systemd but systemd has rather nonexisting Upstart compatibility. I would not be at all surprised if Debian went same argument all over again when time is to move away from X11 as both Mir and Wayland have X11 compatibility but Wayland has no Mir compatibility layer

[MiUNX]

Ubuntu brought some good to the scene, but it then got schizophrenic really quick and got aids.

[finalzone]

Neither Wayland nor Mir will be defaults in the next couple of years so any guesses about which one will be first at the moment are nothing more than just guesses. It could as well be X12 or Räksmörgås. Stop with the distro politics and be happy there's more than one display server in development.

Wayland on Linux desktop environment will be the default first. MIR on Canonical heavily derives from Wayland the former owes it's existence. Designing a protocol for desktop environment is extremely difficult considering the complexity. Even the OS X took so long to mature for what it is.
The fact is Canonical lack manpower.

[franglais125]

Do remember the facts. Canonical only dropped Upstart after they failed to damn Debian into remaining with sysvinit indefinitely. Upstart has good sysvinit compatibility as does systemd but systemd has rather nonexisting Upstart compatibility. I would not be at all surprised if Debian went same argument all over again when time is to move away from X11 as both Mir and Wayland have X11 compatibility but Wayland has no Mir compatibility layer

It'd like to clarify this, in case someone that is not knowledgeable enough reads your post. It is so wrong it's hard to disentangle the different things.

- Canonical dropped Upstart after essentially the whole community opted against Upstart, Debian was only the last large member. ANd calling it "damn Debian"? Seriously? Ubuntu gets all the free work from Debian.

- Wayland having Mir compatibility? Just... What?? Do you realize that Upstart, Mir, Unity are all Ubuntu-only projects? Nobody else uses them (only upstart was used in the past by other distros).

- Debian using Mir? Why on Earth would they do that? All the DEs offered by Debian today use X or Wayland. No Mir in sight at all.

[nanonyme]

It'd like to clarify this, in case someone that is not knowledgeable enough reads your post. It is so wrong it's hard to disentangle the different things.

- Canonical dropped Upstart after essentially the whole community opted against Upstart, Debian was only the last large member. ANd calling it "damn Debian"? Seriously? Ubuntu gets all the free work from Debian.

- Wayland having Mir compatibility? Just... What?? Do you realize that Upstart, Mir, Unity are all Ubuntu-only projects? Nobody else uses them (only upstart was used in the past by other distros).

- Debian using Mir? Why on Earth would they do that? All the DEs offered by Debian today use X or Wayland. No Mir in sight at all.

Think about it. Ubuntu builds on top of Debian. It's in Canonical's best interests to keep the building blocks compatible with what their systems. Granted, it's not as big a problem with display servers as inits but Canonical will eventually start having problems as things in userspace grow tight Wayland integration

[Geopirate]

Neither Wayland nor Mir will be defaults in the next couple of years so any guesses about which one will be first at the moment are nothing more than just guesses. It could as well be X12 or Räksmörgås. Stop with the distro politics and be happy there's more than one display server in development.

Wayland is well on track to be the default for Intel graphics later this year (2016), it's VERY usable right now. There are multiple companies involved who are actively working towards that. There are business reasons for the security model of Wayland vs X, etc. Wayland is also pretty close to their projections from 3+ years ago for the roll out. The main reasons given for Mir being a superior solution was that it would be the default BEFORE Wayland and supposedly it was a superior engineering solution, but that was quickly debunked by the Wayland/X folks, so they really no longer have a leg to stand on.

BTW it's actually not hard to test the functionality of Mir vs Wayland right now and Wayland has a substantial lead. Also it's funny you bring up X12 because even a casual look at the history reveals that this project was scrapped in favor of a rewrite (Wayland) instead of trying to maintain 30+ year old legacy code. My point is Wayland is the succesor to X, many of the developers are common to both projects and it is the community solution.

Mir is a duplication of effort for reasons that have not been justified, so this isn't distro politics, it's common sense. Ubuntu has a history of doing things like this and then going back to the community solution with Upstart and there are all the same reasons to abandon this and more. Making Mir a compositor for Wayland would have allowed them to add most of the additional functionality they have mentioned so far and they could have added the rest upstream to Wayland as needed. This has been said by multiple people much more involved than I am and Ubuntu's response has been that it will really be working on the next release....for now 5 releases.

[uid313]

Meanwhile Fedora have transitioned to Wayland by default...

[andre30correia]

Meanwhile Fedora have transitioned to Wayland by default...

xwayland

[RahulSundaram]

xwayland

No. Fedora uses Wayland for login already. Not XWayland. The work being now is to switch GNOME to use Wayland by default as well. Fedora is pretty close to accomplishing that.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wayland_features