Beta Released Of Devuan, The Systemd-Free Version Of Debian

[bison]

This distro offers nothing compared to Debian besides blacklisting an init and using another as default, which any "Veteran Unix Admin" should be able to do on any distro.

It offers a collection of forked-from-Debian packages, none of which will work in Debian if you remove systemd.

[kaprikawn]

I love how 'does not handle mount errors at bootup well' == crap software.

I'm a fan of systemd. I also think that if it does not give a reasonable error on mount errors on bootup then that is bad.

Init systems aren't religions. I think some perspective is needed. Use it, don't use it, criticise it, point out it's advantages...whatever. But it's just a piece of software, or rather an umbrella project for a bunch of software, not the Anti-Christ.

[Nille_kungen]

but you at least need to spell it wrong

No i didn't, phoronix forum ain't case sensitive.
Maybe the D in systemD stands for the Devil and looking at your nick it would explain why you always protects systemD and calling everyone stupid and such in every systemD thread.
Some of us doesn't give much for systemD and doesn't want to use it but others seems to have an crush on it or it's creator.

[GreekGeek]

Hi yall,

Michael, why the flame bait with "For those systemd haters that are out there....?"

It demeans the value of this site, encourages misguided Trolls and this of course means "pal666."

pal666 you seem to really enjoy insulting everyone who does not agree with you. There are over seven billion humans on this planet.... Your strategy seems like one of, well, an petty idiot...

And, for the proverbial record: https://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/idiot
Definition of idiot in English:

idiot

Pronunciation: /ˈɪdɪət/
NOUN

1informal A stupid person. Example sentencesSynonyms


1.1archaic A person of low intelligence. Example sentences

• In 1324 idiots and lunatics had different rights in law, but now these words have lost their more precise meanings and become little more than insults.

Origin

Middle English (denoting a person of low intelligence): via Old French from Latin idiota'ignorant person', from Greek idiōtēs 'private person, layman, ignorant person', from idios'own, private'.
More

• This comes via Latin idiota ‘ignorant person’, from Greek idiōtēs ‘private person, layman, ignorant person’ based on idios ‘own, private’, and reflecting the attitude in the ancient world to those who did not take an active part in public life.

[GreekGeek]

Hi Yall again,

Thank you Devuan for the option of no systemd. I like having a options.

Has anyone that have tried it, also used the FGLRX ATI/AMD video driver with it? Does it come within the repositories or did you have to use it manually?

I need that for good 4K support.

GreekGeek :-)

[H3g3m0n]

Most of the issues people have with systemd are generally more about a psychological 'resistance to change' than any genuine technical issue. And most of that is due to people not having bothered to learn systemd.

A lot of people seem to be bitching about boot mounting. Personally I have found systemd's mounting much better than previous init systems.

If you want your system to continue to boot when it can't mount something, just add the 'nofail' option to /etc/fstab for the specific entry. This was also the case with upstartd (although it might have meant something slightly different and there was also 'nobootfail').

Another handy option is 'x-systemd.automount' so it will only be mounted when you actually use it. Useful for something like /boot/efi, or a fixed mount point for a USB stick. Just make sure you have vfat (or other fs) module loaded at boot in case of kernel update since the module won't be loaded until it's needed and a kernel update can remove the module before you get a chance to load them (thats probably just an Arch issue). (I also have noauto as well, not sure if thats needed).

For my nfs/cifs mounts I have '_netdev,x-systemd.requires=NetworkManager.service'. Most of that should happen automatically for nfs/cifs according to the systemd man pages, but on wifi it seems to hang at shutdown without it, I'm guessing NetworkManager isn't considered the normal network interface stuff (at least on Arch). But that used to happen to me prior to systemd, and not I can manually and fix it, so an improvement there.

Finally I have some fairly complex bind mounts setup. For example mounting a distro iso as a loopback so I can boot off it over PXE. Those bind mount require other mounts. I can specify them so I don't get a bunch of failures if one drive fails.

/mnt/storage5/isos/Ubuntu/Ubuntu\04016.04/ubuntu-16.04-desktop-amd64.iso /exports/pxe/Ubuntu/16.04/amd64 auto nofail,defaults,x-systemd.requires=/mnt/storage5 0 0

I can also add requirements on mount points to services. For example I keep my docker images on a different drive.

So I make a file with the following: /etc/systemd/system/docker.service.d/override.conf

[Unit]
Requires=mnt-storage3.mount
After=mnt-storage3.mount

I did have some work around for those issues under upstart/sysvinit. But mostly it involved turning off stuff at boot and making an /etc/rc.localfile that did everything manually. Which kind of defeats the purpose of an init system.

There is room for improvement here, it would be nice if systemd automatically worked out dependencies for bind mounts. And the network filesystem issues are a bit silly.

[bison]

In 1324 idiots and lunatics had different rights in law

I didn't know that. Since I've been identified as an idiot on this forum in the past, I'd like to know exactly what my rights are.

[SilverMachine]

I just stay with a SysVinit distro for the simple reason that "if it aint broke don't fix it". SysVinit works. Does everything I need from it. So why would I need to switch to something else? Just for the sake of switching? No thanks. It just doesn't work that way.

[Nobu]

I still think SystemD is shit. It's become less shit than it was, but it's still shit. Here's the simplest way to fuck it up: create an NTFS partition, set it to auto in /etc/fstab, delete ntfs-3g, reboot, have a total fuck up. No, systemd won't say "I cannot mount /dev/blabla to /mnt/somewhere because necessary files might be missing", it will say something like "Bus error 801". WTF???? Really?! It's the best they can do?!

Don't take my words for granted, go check Fedora 23/24-alpha which contain basically a pure systemd implementation.

Weird, in CentOS 7 it puts me into a recovery shell.
To find out what went wrong, I ran `systemctl -b` (logs for current boot) and typed `/mount` to search for "mount" in the logs, hit 'n' until I saw this:

mount: unknown filesystem type 'ntfs-3g'
<mountpoint>.mount mount process exited, code=exited status=32
Failed to mount <mountpoint>.
<failed dependencies>
Unit <mountpoint>.mount has entered a failed state.

Which tells me either ntfs-3g is not installed or it's been moved/deleted. I know it was installed because it's not included by default and I installed it to test this, and I know it worked because I tested it with "sudo mount <mountpoint>" prior to deleting ntfs-3g from /bin, so as far as I know I've duplicated your situation and got completely different results.

Edit: There was no error printed when it dropped me to the emergency shell, but you can see all the loaded units by executing systemctl with no arguments, which also lists their state (active/failed/etc.), and running `systemctl status <mountpoint>.mount` will give you just the relevant error message without having to search for it like I did above.

[Pecisk]

Ohhh, I see SySV religion is strong with this thread.

And yeah, systemd has won. Can we move on? We also had these discussions when GNOME 2 went obsolete. If it is really about choice, then rest of Linux world decided to go other route than you. If Devuan keep getting dev support to stay alive - more power to them. Just please don't call SySV "what ain't broken yadayadayada". SySV was broken and stayed broken. Anything modern - and it kept falling into pieces. Despite Pottering, despite systemd sometimes lacking good human readable reports - situation improving all the time though - it is light years ahead in usability and applicability.

Also hating on RedHat? Company who single handedly has kept giving huge amounts of money to push Linux desktop? Who puts money back in open source and free software? Wtf is wrong with you guys? Too afraid to *like* what corporation is doing for a change?