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Microsoft Promotes Windows Subsystem For Linux "WSL" To GA Status

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Ironmask View Post

    WSL1 is the Linux API over the NT Subsystem infrastructure
    WSL1 isn't using NT subsystem infrastructure. WSL1 is using something called pico process. It's something like isolated environment running on top of kernel, more separated from kernel than normal processes or subsystems are. Kernel is also not trying to manage user space memory in pico process, user space library ntdll.dll is not even mapped to that process. All system calls or exceptions are passed to the pico provider that needs to handle them. In WSL1 pico provider implemented Linux system calls and translated them into NT system calls.

    Compared to NT subsystem this is much more isolated from OS. NT Subsystems were supposed to be equal for kernel so POSIX process for kernel wouldn't be much different than Win32 process or OS/2 process. Also POSIX subsystem in Windows NT didn't run any foreign binaries, all POSIX applications needed to be recompile for it and used PE binary format like any other Windows application.

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    • #42
      Summary of this thread: “Microsoft is still continuing their EEE strategy”.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by Artim View Post
        ll1025 puh...calling WINE an emulator is quite the stunt. But with the rest you're right. WINE (and for all I understand WSL1) isn't modifying any system calls etc, it's merely redirecting them. That's why they have to rewrite all those dlls and provide them in order for Windows programs to work. You could say it's also using emulation by sending DirectX to a translator that translates it to OpenGL/Vulkan, but other than that there's ​a reason for the name "WINE is not an emulator".
        The name is a pun on acronyms like "GNU", doubly humourous because WINE is, in fact, emulating the Windows API.

        For more information, see the discussion here:

        For practical purposes Wine is an emulator, or at least it does what most people would expect an emulator to do, even if technically it isn't just an emulator. See the FAQ for a good explanation. This also follows great traditions in Unix naming, cf. GNU's Not Unix. :-)​
        While it is not emulating different CPUs-- so it's not the more notoriously-bad-performing type of emulator-- it is absolutely emulating a Windows subsystem, down to creating a virtual C: drive and registry.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by TNZfr View Post
          Ok, you talk about of the kernel aspect you see from your seat.
          A kernel is not just a software interface between applications and memory management / thread scheduling ... it does a lot more. To undestand, just compile a kernel, install it, boot it and try to understand how it works.


          Mouhahahaha ....
          * DOS is a kernel not a bootloader.
          * Windows 3.x is a graphical application running on a DOS kernel.
          * Linux is a kernel.
          * GNU/Linux is an OS.
          There is no such OS as GNU/Linux. GNU/Linux at best is a set of bases many OS Distros use, but not all Linux based Distros use it, such as Alpine based on the Musl libc.

          WSL2 uses Microsoft's Hyper-V to boot the custom kernel that I linked to. It is the Linux kernel. What part of that you don't understand is beyond me. It is configured to not include a lot of things not needed, which is the same thing you can do with any Distro's kernel and do for Gentoo for example.

          WSL2 emulates a specific PC and uses Hardware Virtualization to create a Linux machine that sees itself as a separate computer, just like every other virtualization software.

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          • #45
            Meanwhile:

            The Microsoft RNDIS protocol is, as designed, insecure and vulnerable on any system that uses it with untrusted hosts or devices. Because the protocol is impossible to make secure, just disable all rndis drivers to prevent anyone from using them again.
            https://lkml.org/lkml/2022/11/23/728

            Better to not to have anything m$ under your Linux.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by Vistaus View Post
              Summary of this thread: “Microsoft is still continuing their EEE strategy”.
              Curious you decided to make a summary of a thread without reading it.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by Ironmask View Post

                And now I know you're trolling.
                That or you're underage.
                ​* DOS is a kernel not a bootloader.

                It´s a OS, a kernel + a set of utils (fdisk, del, copy, move, dir...) Disk Operating System

                * Windows 3.x is a graphical application running on a DOS kernel.

                Thats actually correct Windows 3.x is a GUI for DOS

                * Linux is a kernel.

                Correct.

                * GNU/Linux is an OS.

                You can say Linux(kernel)+GNU Utils make the basic of an OS like DOS.

                What is percived as Linux are the distributions made up of hundreds of projects, but Linux is actually "the kernel"​

                And when WSL uses a modified downstream Linux kernel you run Linux problem solved
                Last edited by erniv2; 23 November 2022, 02:59 PM.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by Ironmask View Post

                  Curious you decided to make a summary of a thread without reading it.
                  Curious you didn't understand my joke.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by dragorth View Post

                    There is no such OS as GNU/Linux. GNU/Linux at best is a set of bases many OS Distros use, but not all Linux based Distros use it, such as Alpine based on the Musl libc.

                    WSL2 uses Microsoft's Hyper-V to boot the custom kernel that I linked to. It is the Linux kernel. What part of that you don't understand is beyond me. It is configured to not include a lot of things not needed, which is the same thing you can do with any Distro's kernel and do for Gentoo for example.

                    WSL2 emulates a specific PC and uses Hardware Virtualization to create a Linux machine that sees itself as a separate computer, just like every other virtualization software.
                    Ok, so download the latest 6.0.9, compile it, install it and boot on it ... after, we discuss.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by erniv2 View Post

                      ​* DOS is a kernel not a bootloader.

                      It´s a OS, a kernel + a set of utils (fdisk, del, copy, move, dir...) Disk Operating System

                      * Windows 3.x is a graphical application running on a DOS kernel.

                      Thats actually correct Windows 3.x is a GUI for DOS

                      * Linux is a kernel.

                      Correct.

                      * GNU/Linux is an OS.

                      You can say Linux(kernel)+GNU Utils make the basic of an OS like DOS.

                      What is percived as Linux are the distributions made up of hundreds of projects, but Linux is actually "the kernel"​

                      And when WSL uses a modified downstream Linux kernel you run Linux problem solved
                      Your understanding of computing is at the level of a cargo cultist.

                      DOS is a set of abstractions over the BIOS. It has no memory manager, no driver framework, it doesn't even control programs that run "on top of" it, it completely relinquishes control to the program, that uses DOS as a library. In fact, some programs didn't even use DOS after booting at all, they would completely wipe it from memory after loading. It's not an OS, it's not even a kernel. It's name is a misnomer, it's even less than a bootloader by modern standards. Even the UEFI firmware in your computer is leagues more advanced than DOS.

                      Windows 3.1 *is* an OS. It has a memory manager, it has control over the programs that run over it (even if only cooperatively), it has it's own API standard. It is by all intents and purposes an OS, it does everything DOS does not. Calling it a GUI is like calling a monitor a computer.

                      You don't even know what an OS is outside of what you've been told by misinformed people from the 90s who didn't even have an internet connection to use to look this stuff up. Do not talk about things you do not understand, unless you want to put a flag on top of Mount Stupid.
                      Last edited by Ironmask; 23 November 2022, 03:41 PM.

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