Wayland Protocols 1.30 Introduces New Protocol To Allow Screen Tearing

[mantide]

I have the GNOME apps AA issue and my PC is barely a year old, and the hardware in this PC is also barely a year old (the internals were new at the time). My monitor is also from last year and is a crisp 2K screen. So what software should I stick to on this new hardware then if I have that same AA issue that, according to you, should only be present on old hardware?

You are talking about a whole different topic. I was talking about new code not supporting old hardware. You are talking about bug-free perfect software. Bugs are bugs.

Plus you share nothing about your hardware. Bleeding edge tech is setting norms for the future. I am talking about the people who waste no time. For example my hardware always depends on newest kernel so that they can even run. I was on 4k 160hz 3 years ago and I plan to jump on dp2.1 in the next 3 months. When I got my last 3 system systems the Linux kernel won’t boot I have to wait for 2 months for kernel to be released i could only use windows. I am not saying everyone needs to be on bleeding edge. I am just saying the newest software doesn’t necessarily need to support hardware that’s before development time especially with outdated industry specifications. As that’s a a huge waste of time.

[doomie]

People get so extremist and narcissist these days. Is all or nothing. If I use, therefore everybody does. etc etc.

Just yesterday I was gaming on Wayland and was observing micro-stuttering in American Truck Simulator. Tested it with Xorg and it was gone. So yeah, not every game behaves in the same way, so it is nice to have options to achieve a better experience.

Very much this. I am not surprised at how many people don't want screen tearing... in fact I bet grandma doesn't notice either scenario, but what absolutely shocks me are the people saying, "you don't need that" and who literally don't want you to have a choice. "If I don't like chocolate, YOU SHOULDN'T EVER BE ALLOWED TO HAVE IT, now go put your perfectly good hardware in a landfill and buy all new stuff for $2k+" ... they actually seem angry that anyone has a different experience. "It's the fault of the game engines" and those games will never be patched to fix any of it, but I suspect some of these people simply don't play the kinds of games we do, if any at all. It ain't just FPS, it's action/skill stuff in general, including sidescrollers. This control-freak/gatekeeping mentality being so common is always hard for me to fully accept. It's so irrational, and you see it in politics all the time. I guess utopians really do believe their vision is best for EVERYONE, and never listen long enough to notice even the people that agree with them on a policy have different overall visions. Put em on an island and they'd eventually literally kill each other off over what color loincloths should be allowed because they're "best for everyone". Does every minuscule aspect of ones life have to be publicly mandated? TEARING IS OPTIONAL UNDER THIS SPEC, AND NOT EVEN DEFAULT. But it's happening anyway, so you may as well fixate on something new.

EDIT: Speaking of fixation, I think I answered my own question: it seems to be a kind of hardcore idealism (lack of real world life experiences?) that won't be realistic about unsolvable problems (why are human beings corrupt/corruptible?) and so "this isn't the right/efficient way" can never be compromised on for the sake of facing practical realities. In such a person's mind, "all 'problems' are solvable, just use policy" but definitions thereof are so unwittingly arbitrary. Stop trying to FORCE the ideal in your mind to happen in real life. There are legitimate reasons it can't, or shouldn't (or at least can't or shouldn't YET), that you haven't considered. I know you're a dreamer and believe in hope and change, but you're sacrificing a lot of valuable things to something you yourself haven't completely fleshed out / tested. Applies to original topic as well. Thanks for reading.

[Myownfriend]

Yea and 30 fps is more than the eye can see! Certified console peasant.

Learn the difference between someone stating information about the market and someone either expressing their own opinion or making statements about a technology. Just because you don't use v-sync doesn't mean that no one uses it anymore and that no one notices tearing. Just because I like to play games at UHD doesn't mean that no one plays games at lower resolutions any more. Just because some people play their games with low settings so they can try to max out their frame rate, that doesn't mean that no body plays at high settings anymore. Just because we play games on our PCs does not mean that no one uses consoles anymore and that we're better than them.

And just because a majority of people aren't playing at 4K 120 with VRR doesn't mean that it's worse than 720p 30 with a fixed fps and v-sync. If you thought that's what I was inferring then it's you who is illiterate.

Drop the "PC master race"attitude. It reeks of little dick energy and ignorance just like the original people to call themselves "the master race".

[Steffo]

That's nice'n'all, but how are the latest DX12 titles crawling on your expensive toy when translated from DX12 to VKD3D (the broken one) to MoltenVK and finally to Apple's native Metal API?

I'm sure it's totally worth the cost...

Well, do you think I install Linux to play games? Or I buy a Mac to play games? When I have time and motivation, I like what game is available on my platform and maybe I buy it.
If you want really to play games, do it on Windows or buy a console.

[doomie]

Also, on the topic of kinds of stutter, VRR doesn't really cut it either. Someone said game renderers could be fixed, but that's not entirely true.

https://medium.com/@alen.ladavac/the-elusive-frame-timing-168f899aec92

[doomie]

And I can testify that drawing on all Wayland compositors is far more latent. It was another reason I had to stick to X11. Maybe Wayland will happen for me one day after all.

[drake23]

As an fps gamer, I think this is very nice.

On thing though that I am still missing: With x.org I can globally enable triple buffering for OGL games (or rather everything) via x.org.conf (Option "TearFree" "true"). While I understand that triple buffering adds minimal latency, I think this is the very best compromise (when not having vrr display at hand and not being a pro gamer^^). It would be absolutely fantastic, if one day one could force triple buffering with wayland for ogl/vulkan games.

[middy]

Very much this. I am not surprised at how many people don't want screen tearing... in fact I bet grandma doesn't notice either scenario, but what absolutely shocks me are the people saying, "you don't need that" and who literally don't want you to have a choice. "If I don't like chocolate, YOU SHOULDN'T EVER BE ALLOWED TO HAVE IT, now go put your perfectly good hardware in a landfill and buy all new stuff for $2k+" ... they actually seem angry that anyone has a different experience. "It's the fault of the game engines" and those games will never be patched to fix any of it, but I suspect some of these people simply don't play the kinds of games we do, if any at all. It ain't just FPS, it's action/skill stuff in general, including sidescrollers. This control-freak/gatekeeping mentality being so common is always hard for me to fully accept. It's so irrational, and you see it in politics all the time. I guess utopians really do believe their vision is best for EVERYONE, and never listen long enough to notice even the people that agree with them on a policy have different overall visions. Put em on an island and they'd eventually literally kill each other off over what color loincloths should be allowed because they're "best for everyone". Does every minuscule aspect of ones life have to be publicly mandated? TEARING IS OPTIONAL UNDER THIS SPEC, AND NOT EVEN DEFAULT. But it's happening anyway, so you may as well fixate on something new.

EDIT: Speaking of fixation, I think I answered my own question: it seems to be a kind of hardcore idealism (lack of real world life experiences?) that won't be realistic about unsolvable problems (why are human beings corrupt/corruptible?) and so "this isn't the right/efficient way" can never be compromised on for the sake of facing practical realities. In such a person's mind, "all 'problems' are solvable, just use policy" but definitions thereof are so unwittingly arbitrary. Stop trying to FORCE the ideal in your mind to happen in real life. There are legitimate reasons it can't, or shouldn't (or at least can't or shouldn't YET), that you haven't considered. I know you're a dreamer and believe in hope and change, but you're sacrificing a lot of valuable things to something you yourself haven't completely fleshed out / tested. Applies to original topic as well. Thanks for reading.

choice is bad. it allows for people to be different than you. that bad.

[andre30correia]

most of this problems talked here dont happen if you use ubuntu

[Quackdoc]

What scaling in general does, is "fixing" displays that have too high resolutions for their physical size. If you have for example a 60 inch 4k monitor, you don't need scaling at all. But if you have a 15 inch 4k monitor, you do, cause everything will look tiny. Still, integer scaling is perfect for such resolutions and works just fine without any issues.

not fixing, since it's not broken, what is broken is how operating systems and UI toolkits handle scaling.

Problems arise when someone has lower resolutions than 4K, for example 1440p. Then scaling like 200% is too large. But a resolution like 1440p is not too far off 1080p. While 30% scaling might seem nice for such a case, most of the time you can be served by just increasing font sizes.

A shame that there is a LOT of wiggle room on a lot of resolution, sizes, and even form factors.

On windows IIRC you can even increase window panel sizes and other stuff as well, alongside the fonts. Used to in the past at least. So you can get by without a universal 130% scaling that will always get blurry and/or use more resources.

many windows apps handle fractional scaling just fine. you often have to go into properties and change the what scales the application, but often times when you do that it works fine

For me, small scaling factors don't have any real use or purpose for the vast majority of PC monitors. And 200% scaling was perfectly for those who have small 4K monitors. It would be fine if fractional scaling existed sure, more features never hurt. But why spent resources on implementing it when eventually everyone and their dog is going to be using a 4K display?

when you have a 4k monitor, like I said I do, I don't know if you missed that, but I have a 4k monitor, fractional scaling for me is Necessary. the shift to 4k displays means that good fractional scaling is more necessary then ever before... in fact I don't know a single person, personally, that has a 4k monitor without fractional scaling.