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Rust Developers Move Ahead With Preparing To Upstream More Code Into The Linux Kernel

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  • #21
    Originally posted by cj.wijtmans View Post
    Modern C++ compilers has ASAN. I dont know if that would make it "memory safe" but its pretty much similar to rust that it can be turned off and on. Again the issue is not with c++ its with the implementations and tooling. Rust syntax cringes me out but also its centralized tooling and lack of standards are scary as well. You can see why big corp are pushing out.
    You would need a static analyzer that can catch all runtime errors (and then manually fix all of them) before execution to get similar memory safety. This one claims to be able to do that:

    https://www.absint.com/astree/index.htm

    The pricing is not public, so it is likely exhorbitantly expensive, which is why most C++ developers have likely never heard of it.
    Last edited by ryao; 12 November 2022, 04:40 AM.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by NobodyXu View Post
      The development of Rust happens entirely on github in a transparent manner, unlike C/C++ which happens in the committee and requires you to pay some money just to download some RFCs or join in the committee.

      If eanything, you should be more scary of C/C++, because their language spec are completely in control of the big corp and the committee itself is not transparent.


      And C/C++ also get pushed by the big corp initially, so I don't see any problem with that.
      From what I know, you're a bit too harsh towards C/C++ here. Only the final standards are paywalled, all papers (do you mean those by RFCs?) and draft standards can be downloaded without registration or payment. Meeting minutes are also available.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by cj.wijtmans View Post
        Modern C++ compilers has ASAN. I dont know if that would make it "memory safe" but its pretty much similar to rust that it can be turned off and on. Again the issue is not with c++ its with the implementations and tooling. Rust syntax cringes me out but also its centralized tooling and lack of standards are scary as well. You can see why big corp are pushing out.
        First modern C++ safety is not even close to Rust safety.

        2nd I find it funny how C++ people talk about Rust syntax cringe when they themself use probably the cringest syntax out of popular languages.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by cj.wijtmans View Post
          You can see why big corp are pushing out.
          Source, please?

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          • #25
            Originally posted by archkde View Post

            From what I know, you're a bit too harsh towards C/C++ here. Only the final standards are paywalled, all papers (do you mean those by RFCs?) and draft standards can be downloaded without registration or payment. Meeting minutes are also available.
            Thanks for pointing that out!

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            • #26
              Originally posted by archkde View Post

              From what I know, you're a bit too harsh towards C/C++ here. Only the final standards are paywalled, all papers (do you mean those by RFCs?) and draft standards can be downloaded without registration or payment. Meeting minutes are also available.
              Well yes, but by example one of my collegues once contributed to rustc and his change was upstreamed. This is far beyond C/C++ when average contributor can only stand and watch what they add to language.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by piotrj3 View Post

                Well yes, but by example one of my collegues once contributed to rustc and his change was upstreamed. This is far beyond C/C++ when average contributor can only stand and watch what they add to language.
                That's one of the thiing rust done right.
                Everything of the language, including its specs, RFCs and implementation are public and hosted on github.
                Development happens on github and anybody can participate.

                The discussion usually happens on zulip and is also publicly available and anybody can join at anytime.

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                • #28
                  Which architectures will be supported? If we see for example some PCIe device drivers or file systems in Rust in the future, I hope some niche architectures are not left without support. I know there is gcc rust compiler in pretty good shape and will be part of GCC 13 officially (so probably May 2023), which does support quite a lot of platforms, but not sure what Kernel will use by default. I had various issues with standard rustc compiler, not playing nicely with some tools.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by rogerx View Post
                    I do not like the ideology of accepting something that enjoys deprecating technology in secret or in a subdued manor.
                    Well, for a while we tried doing it loud and obnoxiously, but people seemed to hate that even more, so I'm not exactly sure what you want from us.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by bachchain View Post
                      So...the issue is with C++?
                      No i stand by what i said. C++ standard is only syntax and STL and some minor things such as main(), RTTI, globals. All of the underlying work is up to the tooling. C++ CAN have memory safety its just never worked on by the tooling implementations. It even took google to make ASAN. C++ is also getting modules and its taking a long time to implement. I dont hold my breath for memory safety to be standardized though because its completely out of the scope of the C++ syntax. Unlike rust which has centralized tooling.

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