Microsoft Adds An EGL Implementation To Mesa For Windows

[tomas]

With any luck future versions of Windows can finally extinguish desktop Linux for good.

Now why on earth would you want that? You're not a fan of having a choise I guess? Based on your comment it seems like you do not appreciate desktop Linux and is currently running Windows anyway? So how is the existence of desktop Linux affecting you in any way?

[kpedersen]

most if not all the full DirectX/3D library is available as a software renderer just like mesa does for opengl.

Indeed and really helps with build / test VMs. But they really had to, otherwise headless servers wouldn't even be able to provide a desktop. Microsoft's desktop system these days overconsumes the GPU and requires accelerated functionality like Gnome 3 to make naff zoomy effects.

I do like their WARP DirectX stuff for debugging but I would also suggest a better solution is if they (and everyone) just made less wasteful desktop environments (I suppose at least with open-source you can just compile up the original stuff).

[tildearrow]

With any luck future versions of Windows can finally extinguish desktop Linux for good.

Are you kidding me?

Windows has the following major flaws:
- slow (especially Windows 10!)
- uses non-standard backslash directory separator
- is spyware (Windows 10 mostly)
- inconsistent (sometimes it is Windows 10 here, sometimes 8 here, sometimes Vista there, sometimes XP over there, sometimes even 98)

[timrichardson]

Are you kidding me?

Windows has the following major flaws:
-

They weren't kidding you. They were trolling you.

[mppix]

For all their Microsoft evil, one thing I really like in Windows 10 is that most if not all the full DirectX/3D library is available as a software renderer just like mesa does for opengl. That means full DirectX 12 display done over rdesktop, VNC, or a emulated graphics card. Even though it's not top performance it's still really handy.

Remote desktop solutions stream video nowadays.
Grafics primitives like DX12, Vulkan etc require high bandwidth, low latency interfaces (typically pcie). They are not really suitable for networking and only executed locally.
Remote desktop performance mainly depends on how well a solution handles codecs/compression, masks latency, and leverages hw acceleration.

[mppix]

Indeed and really helps with build / test VMs. But they really had to, otherwise headless servers wouldn't even be able to provide a desktop. Microsoft's desktop system these days overconsumes the GPU and requires accelerated functionality like Gnome 3 to make naff zoomy effects.

I do like their WARP DirectX stuff for debugging but I would also suggest a better solution is if they (and everyone) just made less wasteful desktop environments (I suppose at least with open-source you can just compile up the original stuff).

I may never understand this point..
If you want a decent remote desktop experience on a server, you need a GPU...
What is the point of a minimal DE? To me it seems you just to increase attack surface, waste cpu (in particular with software rendering), and it still is not a decent experience (a lot of programs want at least gl)...

[rabcor]

I couldn't care less about a way to run linux on windows. I only care about solutions for doing it the other way around.

Windows is a spooky piece of shit. Linux is a not so spooky piece of shit. Of course I want to use the latter as my main OS, and the former in a preferably hardened sandbox.

[karolherbst]

Ahh.. good list of users to block here

[cb88]

This is not a Microsoft extend stage out of EEE. You have to remember WGL was MS own extend off EGL design in the past. This is more a step backwards that may lead to future extend somewhere else.
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/...1afd30d67bc71d

Yes the issues with WGL vs EGL list in the merge request in fact directly link to how Microsoft attempted to extend EGL design to be windows only thing.

So this step back could be to part of a process to allow Weston wayland compositor to run straight on windows. Also having functional EGL support will make porting opengl es android applications and Linux applications simpler to windows.

There are a lot of open source applications that have vulkan and egl graphical outputs that don't have a windows version.

I some what see this as extend failed with WGL now Microsoft taking step backwards.

Interesting point that a lot of people would not be aware of.
https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/...studio/37559/3
Nvidia opengl does have the EGL functions on Windows.

https://www.khronos.org/registry/Ope...s2_profile.txt
Yes Nvidia extend to WGL to provide EGL functionality.

So this is warped right. Microsoft extended EGL design to make WGL that is more windows like then Nvidia extends WGL allow EGL applications to still be built for windows and now Microsoft is doing EGL support on Windows.

Of course we have items like google angle that have been doing EGL on windows for non Nvidia cards. I am not sure if Intel or AMD implements EGL support on windows.

On EGL is more Microsoft has lost this extend round due to Google and Nvidia extending to put EGL back all the time. So this EGL support is more they cannot beat them might as well join them. Sometimes in the EEE process its Microsoft who ends up stomped on. But the important thing to remember is even if Microsoft loses a extend round does not stop them from trying another extend in future.

WGL has been around since the mid 90s so ... implying that it originated with EGL doesnt make any sense, that said it does mirror much of what GLX does and perhaps some newer stuff it mirrors from EGL. EGL was first released in 2014... around 20 years after WGL was being worked on. Also many of the names for things, come straight from Kronos... so that sort of thing isn't mirroring at all its just implementing the spec.

[oiaohm]

WGL has been around since the mid 90s so ... implying that it originated with EGL doesnt make any sense, that said it does mirror much of what GLX does and perhaps some newer stuff it mirrors from EGL. EGL was first released in 2014... around 20 years after WGL was being worked on. Also many of the names for things, come straight from Kronos... so that sort of thing isn't mirroring at all its just implementing the spec.

cb88 that is way off for when EGL in fact appears.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EGL_(API)
The first Khronos Group specification of EGL is under a different name being "OpenGL ES Native Platform Graphics Interface." Yes thinking the title of this document for ""OpenGL ES Native Platform Graphics Interface." is in fact EGL 1.0 in 2002 and 2003 because it comes from outside Khronos Group. That 10 years before your 2014 date. That is without the drafts leading up to EGL 1.0

Work on EGL starts in the early 90s in fact 1993. The reality is EGL development in fact starts before WGL. EGL was more of a cat fight with different embedded developer groups arguing over what features would be supported for basically 10 years and there is in fact 22 drafts before EGL 1.0.

Microsoft with Windows 95 at the end of 1995 release WGL was basically based off a early draft of EGL this is why there is so many similarities between WGL and EGL. This is kind another Metal vs Vulkan mess just older.

Please note Microsoft extending the early drafts EGL into WGL and making it a Window only thing at first was a good way of getting out of the embedded developer cat fight over what should and should not be EGL. Some cases extend a protocol for you own usage works out as the best move. Other cases it does not long term.

The funny part is the EGL name appears on all the drafts. The early ones have it as EGL= Embedded OpenGl then you have EGL="Embedded-System Graphics Library" that around the time of WGL release and its in the X.org documentation that came from Xfree86 yes these names for EGL are never used by Khronos Group. So EGL though it development got renamed quite a few times and was stuck in draft forms for a very long time.

EGL has a total of 6 different names for the same thing over it development history. Yes 3 by the Khronos Group and 3 before the Khronos Group has the standard. Nothing like a full blown mess for you.