GNOME Shell + Mutter 3.37.3 Are Out Roaring With Better Performance

[JackLilhammers]

Alexmitter even if I'm not a big fan, I think that your statement about macOS UX is very debatable for various reasons that we can discuss elsewhere.
I agree with you that if I'd use Gnome 3 a couple of weeks with a totally open mind I'd get used to it. Totally.
But that's not how things are supposed to be.
Users should not use something with an open mind for a week. And in fact they don't.
As developers we design our apps following the PoLA (Apple shines at this), trying to make them familiar and predictable. Because that's the only way to stick with non geeks.
The only ones that can shove unpopular UI/UX changes down the users throats are monopolists, and sometimes not even them (Windows 8 Metro UI)

curfew Not at all. I've listed environments that have working desktop icons, system trays, and menu bars.
About Kde I think you're quite a few releases behind, but anyway you can ditch plasmoids and effects and still have a quite decent UX.
Also using Deepin seems not that bad at all.

Anyway I really don't care about the linux desktop.
It could be Budgie, Cinnamon, Deepin, Enlightenment, Gnome, Kde, Mate, Pantheon, Unity, Xfce and I wouldn't care.
It wouldn't matter as long as the basics were perfect.
Unfortunately that's not the case and, even worse, Windows and macOS, with their many many flaws, get those basics better than any of the environments listed before.

PS: 144Hz Deepin is free software. Anything we say about security and privacy of GPL software is true for Deepin.

[JackLilhammers]

Just to address this point: correlation is not causation.

Other things happened around the same time, such as Gjs getting updated and was able to keep up with the latest stable MojJS releases. This work took multiple releases. On top of this infrastructure work including the later sysprof support that was carried out allowing both profiling and further performance work.

These things enabled Canonical employees and others to find bottlenecks and carry out the performance work.

Without work on other parts, the performance work could not have been done.

Of course. It's implicit that things are way deeper than short posts can go.

[tildearrow]

Mez' The distributors don’t share your opinion. They keep working on GNOME. In fact no one works on Budgie11. It went down the drain back in 2018 when Ikey grew tired of users yelling from the Dunning-Kruger Peak.

You are so blind, for real.

Look here.

If they added so many extensions and changed the default theme, they clearly share my opinion...

Ubuntu is a notable distribution. The people making it know how screwed up GNOME is, so they had to ship extensions by default.

[curfew]

Web browsers and other apps are praised for being barebone and supporting extensions, but with Gnome that's a fatal flaw? Idiots.

[Mez']

Because that's the only way to stick with non geeks.

Here lies the key. If you don't give them an end goal, developers often do their thing. Some of them have fantastic abilities but they can be blinded by their own skills and galaxies away from reality.

If you don't start from use cases and workflows, and develop with these documented and in mind, it ends up a developers' driven mess such as Gnome.

End users and developers don't speek the same language, and they don't use the computer in the same way (full mouse clicks Vs full keyboard shortcuts). That's why I do what I do, as a first layer of translation from the business towards the IT (functional analysts being the second layer). So that these workflows and use cases are understood and end up being implemented.

If you don't pull these from the end users, what you get is a design made and pushed by developers, with very different behaviors in mind . That's what happened with Gnome (keyboard shortcuts driven).
And the moment non geeks (e.g. Ubuntu users) come into play, you realize how flawed it is.

[JackLilhammers]

Web browsers and other apps are praised for being barebone and supporting extensions, but with Gnome that's a fatal flaw? Idiots.

Browsers are a different use case. In the vast majority of the times the user's workflow depends entirely on the content.

[JackLilhammers]

Here lies the key. If you don't give them an end goal, developers often do their thing. Some of them have fantastic abilities but they can be blinded by their own skills and galaxies away from reality.

If you don't start from use cases and workflows, and develop with these documented and in mind, it ends up a developers' driven mess such as Gnome.

End users and developers don't speek the same language, and they don't use the computer in the same way (full mouse clicks Vs full keyboard shortcuts). That's why I do what I do, as a first layer of translation from the business towards the IT (functional analysts being the second layer). So that these workflows and use cases are understood and end up being implemented.

If you don't pull these from the end users, what you get is a design made and pushed by developers, with very different behaviors in mind . That's what happened with Gnome (keyboard shortcuts driven).
And the moment non geeks (e.g. Ubuntu users) come into play, you realize how flawed it is.

I'm a developer and I find this offensive, but you're right :'D
However with Gnome I think that part of the blame is also on the UI/UX design team, I mean if some designer at Apple even proposed to ditch the global menu, remove the system tray, or the desktop icons* they would've been sent somewhere in China to assemble iPhones for all eternity :'D

*Removed then replaced them with a poor extension. I know that the code had to be replaced. That's totally fine, but the user should not have noticed in any way

[Volta]

Windows and macOS are the most terrible UI design in existence. KDE is much better, but Gnome (with little tweaks) is simply the best. I also prefer Ferrari instead of Lamborghini..

[blackiwid]

If you don't start from use cases and workflows, and develop with these documented and in mind, it ends up a developers' driven mess such as Gnome.

While you might be right to some degree, that all is relative, gnome 2 was WAY MORE Developer driven or unusable by normal users, the reason why Ubuntu was so successful back then was because vanilla gnome 2.0 was totally unusable because of horrible defaults, I remember than nautilus opened for each sub-folder you clicked on a new window. That is way more horrible than whatever gnome 3 did.

Gnome 3 on the other hand is for people that are not extremely stubborn and unwilling to learn better workflows a very usable and visually appealing desktop without a distro tweaking it, but I get that for the most stupid users that hate keyboards and try to work as slow as possible with their mouse only it may not work out perfectly. Even my old father that is a mouse pusher did not complain after using it for years without extensions.

Gnome was never the default distro because it came with such great default settings, even with gnome 3 they are closer than ever, but because it's a solid base, without eye hurting colors / animations without having for everything 50 submenues and 5 system-configuration tools like plasma and with high stability.

Even as it took minutes to start in the earlier days of gnome 3 till when was that 3.14 3.20? it was still superiour and even under the noob distro Ubuntu gnome-shell got higher user scores than Unity in their software-center.

Yes it's a compromise for noobs and power users, but there was always the legacy thingy shell, and the gnome team had no problem if people disagreed with their design decisions and would program their own shell, it was more important that all use the same backend, and not reinvent the whole wheel newly.

It's no dictatorship company where people get paid to create a desktop for noobs only which they then personally hate and not use, no it must at first be good enough for them to use it too, only from that starting point they can also include nood friendlyness. Otherwise you A have to pay higher wages and pay wages to every single person in the project (which they don't do I think?), and get less motivated people that produce a lower quality project.

Gnome is a solid desktop, that seperates it from kde maybe they are now stable? well gnome 3.0 was rock stable, yes it has bugs that reduced here and there a bit performance but that is different that crashing apps and stuff.

So that Ubuntu did their desktop war thing, to try to fork the linux desktop instead of creating this stupid user workflows of course did hurt gnome adoption rate, and because nobody else was really willing to do so. The problem is this stupid end user don't give redhat or gnome or anybody any money, so why should devs focus on creating a desktop for the most stupid users? Which incentive, even Canonical don't earns any money from this type of user. The only one that earns money is system76, so they don't complain and try to fork gnome they just change a few defaults bring a few plugins and that's it, they have the best ever linux desktop that is way better than anything 10 years ago on gnome or kde basis was availible much higher quality much more professional.

Also I find it funny that people here proudly say that they are members of the noob fraction that priotise no learning courve over higher productivity and refuse to use the keyboard.

[blackiwid]

Btw if at all I have the opposite critique, it's to noob focused still, they should focus MORE on the developers / power users. I don't use gnome because even the tiling capabilities in the system76 variant / addons is not good enough, and their multimonitor support was not very good (which recently changed) and keyboard shortcuts also were bad for multimonitor, and then there were the noob friendly decorator menus, which on fullscreen I think don't go away automatically.

So they should had included maximus2 and impatiance by default and just force each app in fullscreen by default and go just full tiling-wm also by default or at least as built-in rock solid option.