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ZFS On Linux Landing Workaround For Linux 5.0 Kernel Support

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Emmanuel Deloget View Post


    What about :

    * Code that is not use rot
    * Rotten code has bugs
    * Bugs are exploited

    Seems like a good technical reason to me.
    lol. You can't exploit code that doesn't get executed and is not used.

    So it's probably a good technical reason in your fantasy land only.

    If the code is used by ZOL/ZFS, then clearly even a bug-ridden piece of code is far preferable to no code at all (and not have it compile, etc).

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    • #62
      Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
      Yes. The functions were not removed, they were refactored and are just not exported anymore so only the kernel itself can use them, but not the kernel modules.

      And I'm saying that maybe you don't see the whole picture here because they clearly said they don't use them in kernel modules, and that's why they removed the interface.
      Maybe the kernel modules do something similar to what userspace does, to the contrary of what you thought? I would not rip my clothes in awe if that was the case, you know.
      So? Cutting out out-of-tree modules access to it "just because" for idiotic reasons like code purity is retarded, especially since it's not such a big drain on anything. I know why they did it, but like I said before, it's a case of:

      "I can see why you'd want to use X in your module, but since I don't use it myself (my modules), I'm cutting it off even if it's minor to keep it around."

      Which is, again, attitude for a retard. But I already said this. This isn't a case of "I want X added", but more a case of preventing its removal. Removal REQUIRES action, not the other way around (inaction would keep it around). So this isn't a request for free work at all, just not be a piece of shit egoist bitch (not talking about you but you-know-who).


      BTW, what do you mean "similar to what userspace does"? What are you referring to? Userspace doesn't have to care at all about saving register state, it's done by the kernel. Userspace can be interrupted at ANY instruction and still have it work later because the state must be the exact same when resumed. Only the kernel has to be wary of this since it manages processes and threads itself.

      (well you could make a "userspace thread" or "fiber" or whatever it is called, in that case yeah, you have to manage the register states yourself even in userspace -- however your userspace manager's state would still need to be managed by the kernel)

      Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
      Does it make a true production distro? I'd say no.
      Fair enough, I understand your point of view on what you desire from "production-ready" distro now.
      Last edited by Weasel; 18 January 2019, 03:39 PM.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by ryao View Post

        Oracle is not able to relicense ZFSOnLinux by themselves. Myself and other copyright holders would need to sign off too. As far as getting agreement is concerned, it would be easier to rewrite all of the Oracle owned ZFS kernel code (which in itself would be a huge undertaking) than it would be to get Oracle to do anything.
        Yeah, people that say "Just have Oracle re-license it" don't understand the problem. (and they don't understand Oracle either) Even if they did this, it would not give us OpenZFS or ZoL.

        It's a real shame too because ZFS could be a universal cross platform file system being that it runs on Linux, FreeBSD, Mac OS X, Solaris/Illumos and there are experimental builds for Windows 10 and even Haiku. It's good in the datacenter and good('ish) in the home. I think in order to know where to go with this we need a legal judgement to find out if the CDDL is actually incompatible with the GPL like the FSF/GNU says it is. Ubuntu has been standing opposed to them and in violation for what.. 3 years now? Maybe ZoL should make their own distro based on CentOS? hmm.. if it burns in legal fire then maybe bcachefs is the future.
        Last edited by k1e0x; 18 January 2019, 04:50 PM.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by some_canuck View Post
          because nobody is using freebsd, linux has been the future for at least a decade now.
          False! FreeBSD is the dominant OS base for embedded networking devices and appliances. FreeNAS and pfSense are two open-source examples, but commercial enterprise products like Juniper Junos, Checkpoint Firewall, Blue Coat Proxy, Dell Compellant, Citrix Netscaler, NetApp Filer, McAfee Sidewinder, and of course the Sony PS3 and PS4 game consoles. I'm sure there are others I'm not aware of.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Weasel View Post
            lol. You can't exploit code that doesn't get executed and is not used.

            So it's probably a good technical reason in your fantasy land only.

            If the code is used by ZOL/ZFS, then clearly even a bug-ridden piece of code is far preferable to no code at all (and not have it compile, etc).
            Your knowledge enlightens me. Holy cow! Code present in the code segment but not referenced by any other piece of code cannot be executed by a malware! This is good! At last, a vector that evil doers will never be able to exploit!

            Like, imagine, no one ever tried to mess with the stack to push an unwanted return address in it! That would be gross! Anyway, as you said, you cannot exploit code that does not get executed, and that would clearly be impossible to force the execution of such code by making an exploited caller to return to this code, which, you know, will never ever be executed!

            This is so brilliant!

            I wonder why we ever delete a function in our code. We just have to leave them here and there! There is no cost! No technical debt! Nothing! Everything is Free! This is wonderful!

            Man, you're brilliant. Do you realize that you are the leader of a programming revolution? I've not witnessed this level of insight since the publication of the Art of Programming!

            (I may have overused the exclamation mark, but, guys, this is frankly awesome!)

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post
              False! FreeBSD is the dominant OS base for embedded networking devices and appliances. FreeNAS and pfSense are two open-source examples, but commercial enterprise products like Juniper Junos, Checkpoint Firewall, Blue Coat Proxy, Dell Compellant, Citrix Netscaler, NetApp Filer, McAfee Sidewinder, and of course the Sony PS3 and PS4 game consoles. I'm sure there are others I'm not aware of.
              I'm not sure about that. Most consumer routers are linux-based and that count for a high number of network devices. In France alone, all consumer DSL and fiber routers are linux-based (that's 15-20 million devices).

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Emmanuel Deloget View Post
                Your knowledge enlightens me. Holy cow! Code present in the code segment but not referenced by any other piece of code cannot be executed by a malware! This is good! At last, a vector that evil doers will never be able to exploit!

                Like, imagine, no one ever tried to mess with the stack to push an unwanted return address in it! That would be gross! Anyway, as you said, you cannot exploit code that does not get executed, and that would clearly be impossible to force the execution of such code by making an exploited caller to return to this code, which, you know, will never ever be executed!

                This is so brilliant!
                So why would malware mess with the stack to execute that function instead of its own code? Actually I think it's pretty difficult to smash the stack of kernel with malware, as it has different stack to begin with.

                Originally posted by Emmanuel Deloget View Post
                I wonder why we ever delete a function in our code. We just have to leave them here and there! There is no cost! No technical debt! Nothing! Everything is Free! This is wonderful!
                Yes it is wonderful. That's why Windows has more than 90% market share since it rarely (if ever) deletes exported functions.

                Linux (kernel) does the same thing but unfortunately only to userland interface (and this isn't userland API).

                Originally posted by Emmanuel Deloget View Post
                Man, you're brilliant. Do you realize that you are the leader of a programming revolution? I've not witnessed this level of insight since the publication of the Art of Programming!

                (I may have overused the exclamation mark, but, guys, this is frankly awesome!)
                Thanks for the compliment, but this is far from my revolution. It's been done for decades already, and unfortunately it was Microsoft who did it, and look at the world now and the state Linux vs Windows is in.

                Yeah, they didn't follow these marvelous principles, so they paid the price. Sad.

                Glad to see at least one person open his eyes and appreciate the marvel at work though!!!
                Last edited by Weasel; 19 January 2019, 03:01 PM.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by hreindl View Post
                  well, when you read and partially take serious what that guy writes the conclusion we and the whole world is shit except himself
                  which leads the question why he simply don't write his own operating system out of his genius mind
                  As mentioned in the other thread, I'll write it if you pay me full time, retard. So your "question" is because I VALUE MY TIME and I don't work for free unlike you trash kid.

                  Sadly this forum doesn't have a block list I could find, so I still see your gibberish.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by hreindl View Post
                    why should i pay you full time for something YOU want
                    Because you're the moron who "questions" why I don't write it myself. Not sure what kind of answer you expect. You want me to write it? Show the dough. Really easy.

                    Why? No pay.

                    Originally posted by hreindl View Post
                    *lol* you even don't realize when someone take the piss out of you :-)
                    I guess I forgot to include the /s at the end there, didn't realize there still were kids reading this forum but then I remembered of you.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by hreindl View Post
                      i want you to either stop whining or just do your own thing and leave the world fuck in peace
                      I'm doing my own thing by ranting and putting kids like you in their place.

                      I want a lot of things too, including blowing your keyboard and computer off so you can't type anything anymore.

                      Sadly that's not going to happen, and fortunately neither what you want, so you can keep wanting, and I'll keep pissing you off.

                      Originally posted by hreindl View Post
                      you sound like a dumb little child "the whole world is bad, i don#t want it that way, i know everything better but i don't get my ass up, papa help"
                      Waa scared I'll take away your little systemd toy or what?

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