Outreachy Announces Summer 2018 Participants

[starshipeleven]

Cool story bro, what's that got to do with Outreachy?

Outreachy does the same as the college in his story.

If ou see it as help for Outreachy, you should see it as help also in that college.

[starshipeleven]

Outreachy isn't "needed".

Women make up over 50% of the population. Women make up significantly less than 50% of the population of FOSS participants. Those are facts (unless you want to quibble over 'significantly'). What the reason is is debatable, but regardless, the funders of Outreachy just want to do a little to encourage under-represented groups into FOSS.

It isn't about what is "needed", they're just doing something which they think is a good thing.

The base issue here is that these type of projects operate on a flawed concept, that giving "equal opportunity" would translate into having "equal distribution" of the sexes/genders/races/whatever.

So just because women are 50% of the population someone thinks that we should have 50% women everywhere and if we don't then it is wrong. That's not equal opportunity, that's equal distribution. Opportunity implies that people might still be different and maybe most women/attack helicopters or other minority might still not like tech jobs because of their different culture, mindset or life goals, but if someone wants to then they can get into it, and if the numbers are still not the same it's ok as there are other factors into play on someone's FREE decision to get into some field.

The thing that must be worked on is giving equal opportunity to ALL (not just minorities), not dump money to reach equal distribution (i.e. artificially boost minority numbers by providing them unfair advantage).

But hey, stupid people don't understand the difference, so whatever.

[kaprikawn]

Outreachy does the same as the college in his story.

If ou see it as help for Outreachy, you should see it as help also in that college.

They're not comparable. College is a critical resource that should be available to everyone. Outreachy is a small program that was designed from inception to only be available to under-represented groups.

If you get denied entry to college because of some policy that is not to do with merit, then you have a right to be aggrieved. But Outreachy isn't hurting you if you're a white male. People talk about Outreachy as if it existing infringes on their civil rights, they need to get some perspective.

[pininety]

They're not comparable. College is a critical resource that should be available to everyone. Outreachy is a small program that was designed from inception to only be available to under-represented groups.

If you get denied entry to college because of some policy that is not to do with merit, then you have a right to be aggrieved. But Outreachy isn't hurting you if you're a white male. People talk about Outreachy as if it existing infringes on their civil rights, they need to get some perspective.

I disagree. The resources going to Outreachy, both time and money, are obviously not generated out of thin air. While I agree that the impact of Outreachy is small, I can still see people being angry about it.

Personally, I disagree with the hole concept of Outreachy because I am a big believer in equal opportunity. Also I would really like to see some hard numbers on the claim that they are "only be available to under-represented groups". I can see it for woman but for trans people? My sample size is small but from the amount of trans people I know, a high percentage of them is working in IT.

[Guest]

Since I'm from Kuwait and considered "Middle Eastern", I checked the white box not knowing doing so would change everything in my application.

It seems this culture of reverse-racism is still ongoing in the US.

That's different because even if you have white colored skin, and even if you have same facial features as current white Americans and you can't be visually identified as different, most of the western world refuses to identify you as "white". "White", for them, is a race and not a color. It's an imitation of the Nazi racial categorization ideology.
Outreachy defends people like yourself who are often labeled despite the need for labeling being often absent.

Take a look at the US population. Black Americans label themselves as "African Americans" even though it should simply be "Americans". White Americans also reinforce that behavior by also labeling black Americans as "African Americans". Both colors lack the patriotism to label themselves and their fellow Americans as "Americans".

You can argue and say "nah, it's not like that at all" but it is the interpretation that outsiders are concluding.

[brrrrttttt]

The base issue here is that these type of projects operate on a flawed concept, that giving "equal opportunity" would translate into having "equal distribution" of the sexes/genders/races/whatever.

So just because women are 50% of the population someone thinks that we should have 50% women everywhere and if we don't then it is wrong. That's not equal opportunity, that's equal distribution. Opportunity implies that people might still be different and maybe most women/attack helicopters or other minority might still not like tech jobs because of their different culture, mindset or life goals, but if someone wants to then they can get into it, and if the numbers are still not the same it's ok as there are other factors into play on someone's FREE decision to get into some field.

The thing that must be worked on is giving equal opportunity to ALL (not just minorities), not dump money to reach equal distribution (i.e. artificially boost minority numbers by providing them unfair advantage).

But hey, stupid people don't understand the difference, so whatever.

There are people out there stupid enough to actually argue for equality of outcome (rather than just equality of opportunity). Scary world.

[kaprikawn]

I disagree. The resources going to Outreachy, both time and money, are obviously not generated out of thin air.

Yeah, they come from Red Hat, a private organization. Who are you to tell them what they can and can't do with their resources?

[kaprikawn]

The base issue here is that these type of projects operate on a flawed concept, that giving "equal opportunity" would translate into having "equal distribution" of the sexes/genders/races/whatever.

So just because women are 50% of the population someone thinks that we should have 50% women everywhere and if we don't then it is wrong. That's not equal opportunity, that's equal distribution. Opportunity implies that people might still be different and maybe most women/attack helicopters or other minority might still not like tech jobs because of their different culture, mindset or life goals, but if someone wants to then they can get into it, and if the numbers are still not the same it's ok as there are other factors into play on someone's FREE decision to get into some field.

The thing that must be worked on is giving equal opportunity to ALL (not just minorities), not dump money to reach equal distribution (i.e. artificially boost minority numbers by providing them unfair advantage).

But hey, stupid people don't understand the difference, so whatever.

This is a very well argued point. Very rare on the comments section of Outreachy.

But in your argument, I think you're implying that women (+ trans etc.) do have equal opportunity in tech. I would say that with tech being over-represented in white males*, this makes an environment that might be intimidating to women. It could be argued that something like Outreachy might be good for counteracting that.

* tech isn't actually over-represented in white males, it's actually over-represented in Asian males, at least in the US, see Bryan Lunduke's video on religion.

[starshipeleven]

They're not comparable.

So, you're saying that College not as important as experience you can use to look for a job? Because that's what you're saying below.

College is a critical resource that should be available to everyone. Outreachy is a small program that was designed from inception to only be available to under-represented groups.

... to get a job. So, under-represented groups should have help in getting a job? For what kind of reason? Why should I care about minority or race or gender when choosing who gets help to get a job?

If you get denied entry to college because of some policy that is not to do with merit, then you have a right to be aggrieved. People talk about Outreachy as if it existing infringes on their civil rights, they need to get some perspective.

So, if you are deneid college because you're a white male it's bad, but if you are denied help to get a job because you're a white male it's ok.

Can't you see the flawed bullshit that is under this?

But Outreachy isn't hurting you if you're a white male.

What in the actual fuck?
It is giving unfair advantage to people of other genders/races just because of their gender/race, this means I'll have a harder time finding a job myself as they will be more qualified, and will have this better qualification based on bullshit reasons.

Small size does not mean it's still wrong, just as killing 2 people out of a pool of 2 million is not going to matter statistically.

[starshipeleven]

Yeah, they come from Red Hat, a private organization. Who are you to tell them what they can and can't do with their resources?

If they were oppressing black people would this statement hold water? No.