Ubuntu 18.04 LTS Continues Prepping With The Linux 4.15 Kernel

[Zoll]

We have a proverb in Arabic (القاقلة تسير والكلاب تنبح) that perfectly describes the fanboyism in this thread. Numbers talk, the majority of the users are on Ubuntu (or one one of its derivatives) and would likely continue so in the foreseeable future. I find it insulting to suggest that Ubuntu users are "noobs" who do not know how to pick a proper OS, it reeks of elitism which the open source community continues to suffer from.

[TemplarGR]

People need to stop preaching. Seriously, zealotry, fanboyism and the constant urge to "convert" someone to use something is one big plague in the FOSS community. Ubuntu has its flaws, it also has its advantages and those who use it usually have good reasons to do so.

Ubuntu has no advantages whatsoever, and has only hurt Linux. Most newbies who try to convert from Windows try Ubuntu (or the other abomination, Mint), get frustrated when software is obsolete and many obscure bugs happen, and go back to Windows saying "tried Linux, Linux sucks", when all they ever tried was that POS Ubuntu. I have been a Linux user for about 20 years and have seen this happen PLENTY of times.

The only thing Ubuntu offers is a nice gui installer. Nothing else.

[TemplarGR]

We have a proverb in Arabic (القاقلة تسير والكلاب تنبح) that perfectly describes the fanboyism in this thread. Numbers talk, the majority of the users are on Ubuntu (or one one of its derivatives) and would likely continue so in the foreseeable future. I find it insulting to suggest that Ubuntu users are "noobs" who do not know how to pick a proper OS, it reeks of elitism which the open source community continues to suffer from.

Oh really, talking about irony here...

People use Ubuntu because people use Ubuntu. This is what gets most coverage from places like Phoronix, so obviously people use that. Michael keeps posting irrelevant posts about "Ubuntu upgraded this package and will use this package", like we should care, while not talking about other distros in that way.

And if you are going to use the "numbers=good argument", then Windows are the best OS ever existed.

[TemplarGR]

Or it could be because whether "novice" or not, they have better and more interesting things to do than spending time configuring a distro or learning how to configure a distro. They - rightly - expect their computer to Just Work, all the while being a FOSS platform. Ubuntu is currently the closest thing to this ideal there is. Far from perfect, of course, but nothing comes close - except perhaps Mint and similar distros, which are themselves Ubuntu derivatives.

This is a huge load of BS. Even if you are using Windows 10 there are a lot of things to do to configure the OS, setup drivers, and software. The plain vanilla Windows 10 installation is barebones and barely useful for anything. People will never stop having the need to configure their OS, and the more specific needs they have, the more of a configuration they need to do. The only thing that changes in Windows 10 is that people are more used to the windows world of how to handle things, and they don't need to use the command line.

Expecting Linux desktop users to never have the need to configure anything is an utopia that will never happen. The best you can hope for is an intelligent user base that know how to handle things and help each other.

The irony of this is that Ubuntu in general from my 2 decade experience has MORE issues than most other distros, including Arch. With almost every new release there have been various obscure bugs and since Ubuntu is always changing everything for no apparent reason, it is always hard to pinpoint a solution. I remember stuff like audio missing, desktop crushes, network not working, and trying to troubleshoot said stuff for days. And the worst part is that most of those problems were NOT upstream issues and thus required ubuntu-specific solutions. The software is obsolete and if you want to run anything up-to-date with upstream you need to setup 100000s third party PPAs and make your installation liable to repo hell. Not to mention all the trust issues with 3rd party compiles.

Ubuntu is fine if you are a grandma who only uses Firefox to serf the web and use facebook. As soon as you need to go out of the beaten path all hell breaks loose. Ubuntu sucks.

[makam]

People need to stop using Ubuntu and migrate to some proper distros like Archlinux for their desktops. Ubuntu is fine for your grandma but if you have bigger needs you need something better. Obviously server folks don't need this advice because they aren't using Ubuntu to begin with...

I use Gentoo. Get on my level kiddo.

[Azrael5]

the 4.16 release should be ready by 1 april so there is sufficient time to implement it.

[kattjaevel]

Can someone explain to me why this is a problem when we have the HWE for LTS releases?

[kattjaevel]

This is a huge load of BS. Even if you are using Windows 10 there are a lot of things to do to configure the OS, setup drivers, and software. The plain vanilla Windows 10 installation is barebones and barely useful for anything. People will never stop having the need to configure their OS, and the more specific needs they have, the more of a configuration they need to do. The only thing that changes in Windows 10 is that people are more used to the windows world of how to handle things, and they don't need to use the command line.

Expecting Linux desktop users to never have the need to configure anything is an utopia that will never happen. The best you can hope for is an intelligent user base that know how to handle things and help each other.

The irony of this is that Ubuntu in general from my 2 decade experience has MORE issues than most other distros, including Arch. With almost every new release there have been various obscure bugs and since Ubuntu is always changing everything for no apparent reason, it is always hard to pinpoint a solution. I remember stuff like audio missing, desktop crushes, network not working, and trying to troubleshoot said stuff for days. And the worst part is that most of those problems were NOT upstream issues and thus required ubuntu-specific solutions. The software is obsolete and if you want to run anything up-to-date with upstream you need to setup 100000s third party PPAs and make your installation liable to repo hell. Not to mention all the trust issues with 3rd party compiles.

Ubuntu is fine if you are a grandma who only uses Firefox to serf the web and use facebook. As soon as you need to go out of the beaten path all hell breaks loose. Ubuntu sucks.

I have used Ubuntu LTS releases for years on my private PC, latop, NAS server and on my company laptop and cloud servers; all instances run quite successfully. I find it amusing that you seem to think that you can "shame" me and my colleagues, by comparing us to "beginners" and "grandma"? And I have seen this from several Arch users. There seems to be a thinking that we would change a secure, stable and easy to manage setup just because of random users on the internet calling us names. On the contrary this sort of elitist behavior is very off putting to me.

[Guest]

Arch Linux is a modern day Ubuntu in fanboyism level.

[vito]

So Unity is Bad(tm) because it had features that others didn't at the time

This is not what I said. You seem to be missing the point. :-)

rather than if it doesn't do any of these things, but is able to run under twm and expects users to write a crontab.

I never said that an app has to run under twm and/or require crontab.

Unity didn't break anything. Everything worked fine under it

Everything might have worked under it, but the apps that had ties to it were broken on other desktop and distros.

And I'm glad to hear that KDE is fine in your book, but I presume that you know that it has many more "own" functionalities than Unity ever did

Functionality is not bad. The key however is that KDE team plays well with the community - they are actually part of the community.

Firstly, not all Canonical projects require CLAs.

All the important ones do.

CLA comes into play if you want to contribute code back to Canonical to be merged upstream. But of course you don't have to. You can happily fork the project and distribute it on your own, re-merging from upstream at any time

This is a textbook example of fragmentation. :-)

I confess I'm not entirely clear what is the point you are trying to make

I've noticed.

but is bad because reasons

Snap is "bad" (as you put it) because Canonical is re-inventing the wheel again, just like they did with Mir etc. In the perfect world, they would have collaborated with the community on Flatpak.

many of these reasons seem little more than gratuitous prejudice or myths

So Canonical starting Mir (for example) instead of collaborating with the rest of community (on Wayland for example) is a myth? It must be nice in your parallel universe. :-)

Linux will always be FOSS and Ubuntu nor anyone else can ever change that even if they wanted to.

And for this you can thank the FOSS community - the ones that play well with each other.



This conversation reminds me of the one I had with an Apple fan about why Apple creating their own 3D API (i.e. Metal) instead of using Vulkan is bad for the community.