Clear Linux Is The Latest Distribution Figuring Out What To Do With Python 2

[rastersoft]

Python 3 is a total joke. I have (reluctantly) moved only because I've been brute-forced into it by the constant threats and nagging from the Python 3 gestapo. And there is _nothing_ that I have found that I could not do in Python 2. Asyncio and type hints are just eye rollers.

Python, C++, Java, Fortran... are a total joke. I have (reluctantly) moved only because I've been brute-forced into it by the constant threats and nagging from the productivity and maintenance gestapo. And there is _nothing_ that I have found that I could not do in Assembler. Memory management, types, object orientation... are just eye rollers.

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Getting rid of Python2 seems like a bad idea since so much code is not going to be compatable with Python3.

A contrast was made with Perl 6. Perl 6 is a new language from Perl 5. No one is planning to get rid of perl 5 in fact Perl 5 has continued to expand and develop. The plan for Perl 6 was a completely new implementation on Parrot VM. What made it a joke was the disaster that was Parrot and the lack of an official implementation. Parrot tried to be a universal VM and wasted time with supporting other languages, and this was a mistake, Parrot should have been for Perl 6 period end of story. They should have had a sanctioned implementation and Parrot should have been to service that, period. It also needed a dictator to implement it to reduce the level of arguments over implementation. Perl 6 itself is a specification. It is not a joke, it is a very powerful language. But the implementation was a joke for a long time. Larry should have delegated Rakudo and Parrot to a dictator with powers to replace the dictator should it had not work out. Larry was not really interested in being involved in implementation but this way he could have ensured the project was going to be properly run

Perl 6 has come a long way in Rakudo, and there is a new VM called MoarVM that is tightly focused on supporting Rakudo. It has matured and is now useable. Perl 5 and Perl 6 will co-exist since they are really very very different in specification and implementation. A bridge between the VMs can be used to allow perl 5 and perl 6 code to live in the same program.

[Bitter]

Python3 haters must have been living under a rock, or inside an ASCII buble.

Python 3 got Unicode a lot better.

There are no more silent errors when mixing types. Have a go on Google and see how many projects have found hidden bugs covered by Python 2, when they moved to Python 3.

F-strings FTW!

Ordered, low memory usage, performant dict implementation.

And the list of API cleanups is too long to post here.

[schmidtbag]

I have been looking at Python again recently with a view to moving to it to write my Linux desktop applications. I have seen tables showing that almost all the common python packages are available for Python 3 and the Python developers are saying "now" is the time for the big move to python 3. However, I know many Python 2 programmers do not see a need to move on to Python 3 yet. This situation makes me reluctant to commit to using Python in general.

Using the analogy made earlier of comparing Python to Windows, Python 2 users are kinda like Windows XP users:
They're too stubborn to ever let things go. They think their experience is fine and they don't really care if they're using something outdated; they just like to remember the simpler times, even though simpler isn't always better. The problem is, their platform isn't really supported anymore, but they still make up enough of a demographic to hold back development of everyone else who upgraded.
Python 3 is, actually, a little bit like Vista - kinda unpleasant and broken at first, but after it was patched there wasn't really anything especially wrong with it.

I'd say getting into python is perfectly safe and simple now, but stick with 3.x.

[nomadewolf]

So you're saying Python 4 is going to come along and be better (like Win 7)?
Anyway, that's an awful comparison. You shouldn't compare anything to Windows Vista. That's like.. puppies and kittens just died.

EDIT: You don't even want to know what happens when you compare something to Windows ME.

Why don't we raise the stakes and compare something with Win 95?...

[nanonyme]

So you're saying Python 4 is going to come along and be better (like Win 7)?
Anyway, that's an awful comparison. You shouldn't compare anything to Windows Vista. That's like.. puppies and kittens just died.

EDIT: You don't even want to know what happens when you compare something to Windows ME.

I've been hearing that Guido has said that Python4 will come but it won't be as invasive change as Python3 was. More similar to Python3.

[TheBlackCat]

The other day, we were discussing Python 2 vs Python 3 and I was told by Phoronix members that every important thing was already ported to Python 3. So if that's true, then shouldn't it be easy for distros to drop Python 2?

The problem is switching every package over takes time. You need to go through and make the switch in whatever you are using for the build. You need to change shebangs. You need to change hard-coded directories. You need to test it to make sure it is working with your particular combination of packages. You need to update some packages to newer versions. You need to drop or change some dependencies, such as backports or packages with seperate python2 and python3 directories. And you need to do this with every single package you have. And unless everything is switched, you can test how the whole set works together.

So for a single project, it isn't a big deal. You can usually just call "python3 setup.py install" instead of "python2 setup.py install". But when you are a distro with thousands if not tens of thousands of packages, all of which need to be manually switched over, it becomes more complicated.

That is why many distros are doing a step-wise approach where they support both for a while, then drop python2. This allows them to switch packages over one-at-a-time to support both, then once everything is switched over they can flip a switch in their build system and drop python2 across the board.

[TheBlackCat]

From this, it looks like Python 3 is the Windows Vista of the programming languages/scriping/whatever...

Pretty much every survey of programming language popularity and usage says otherwise.

[DanL]

Why don't we raise the stakes and compare something with Win 95?...

I'd take Win95 OSR2 over ME any day.

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Every python 2 piece of code already being converted to python 3 doesn't sound likely to me. I bet there is a lot out there that still only runs on Python 2. For a big program, it can be a nontrivial job and we don't want to break a lot of things. Distros can just leave python 2 in as a package but removing it completely is insane and pointless.