systemd Breached One Million Lines Of Code In 2017

[pal666]

Yes, I can disable journald completely (which I do) but it won't help me in creation of all system logs completely in ram in a god damned circular buffer.

obviously, to get all system logs completely in ram the first step is to enable journald. is it so difficult to understand?

Why timesyncd?

why can't you read its man?

How many implementation of time syncing existed before? Wasnt' that enough?

they are all included in slackware 1.0
wat's wrong with you? go back to your slackware 1.0

Why my machine is leaking dns now over a vpn connection? Ah, my distro has switched to the new shiny system-resolved, thanks a lot.

ah, evil poettering makes such nice things that everyone wants to switch to them

Why devuan and alike even exist

the correct question is why morons are bitching on forums instead of switching to those wonderful distros

Is it because these people are so damn stupid or is it because they see flaws in the systemd design?

let me think, are marginal distros for idiots made by idiots or by brightest people on planet?

And no, I can't switch to a devuan or alike because my hardware vendor only ship ISO's with systemd inside.

then you should thank systemd, because otherwise your hardware vendor would ship you empty iso, idiot

And no I do not have time nor money to tinker with yocto.

if you don't have time and money, then all you can do is report bugs to your upstream (which is not systemd in case you can't understand such trivial things)

[pal666]

Who kept pointing out how .bad and cumbersome sysV init and shell scripts combined are, and how systemd is supposed to make it all go away.

systemd is supposed to make all bad sysv shell scripts go away. but systemd does not forbid shell scripts, it allows to run any programs in any language. who told you otherwise?
and in any case it is a script for openvpn, not for systemd

[pal666]

And before you start insisting it's a isolated case: try simple thing. Type into Google: systemd dns vpn problem
See how many returns you get. I got in excess of 100k.

i typed linux dns vpn problem
and got 578k hits. which proves what?

[pal666]

The proper engineering solution is having multiple projects, each maintained by a separate group of people.

where do you get this shit from? one of reasons of open source success is that it allows cross-project development

This way, user of a dependency will spot if the API is crap, or otherwise non-functional.

while when user of dependency is the same person as api author, he can make it functional from the start

Leaving a big blob of a project in hands of a monolithic group of committers creates an echo chamber.

what is this "big blob of a project" and "monolithic group of committers" shit is? are you off your meds?

This should never be a single repository!!!

why??????? it is 50 times smaller than kernel !!!!!!!!!!!

Their tests are also short and useless, barely checking of anything works at all. Proper practice here is adding tests for bugs that just got fixed.

show me sysv tests in comparison. or write them better tests, they will surely accept your valuable contribution

Compare this with Qt 5, which is a big project in its own right. I just build qtbase, qtserialport, and qttools. Only the former is "big" by any standard.

isn't it funny that you chose to contrast systemd with behemoth reimplementing everything in its sight, including its implementation language?

[pal666]

Why'd I post this and not 'original' bug report?

because you were not competent enough to read last report's message which explains that it is only a matter of configuring proper search domain on interface

And scrolling downwards you can see 400 loc shell script being offered

if you are against all shell scripts now, scroll more and find nice c code, provided for systemd for that https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/7576/files

[sthalik]

Javascript for quoting text parts doesn't work for me, responding with old-style quotes. Sorry for that.

pal666,

>> The proper engineering solution is having multiple projects, each maintained by a separate group of people.
> where do you get this shit from? one of reasons of open source success is that it allows cross-project development
>> Leaving a big blob of a project in hands of a monolithic group of committers creates an echo chamber.
> what is this "big blob of a project" and "monolithic group of committers" shit is? are you off your meds?

First off, watch your insults and your tone. They're only telling about yourself, not me. As for the matter at hand:

All the heavily-reused projects like pixman, freetype2, zlib, qt, gtk, glx et al. must and do agree on an API. This provides a separation of concerns, as each library's internals aren't exposed to its consumers. Familiarize yourself with the concept of "information hiding".

For a monolithic project, the developer needn't hide any internals, or keep a stable API/ABI. Ideally we'd have a public API, a private API for each subproject, and an internal API each subproject exposes to other parts of the monolithic projects. We have that in the Linux kernel, except for the "stable internal API" part. Since there's no natural separation in monolithic projects, it takes a significant engineering effort to keep sane practices (thus preventing a large project from falling apart).

>> This should never be a single repository!!!
> why??????? it is 50 times smaller than kernel !!!!!!!!!!!

That's not any measure of complexity. Also, the kernel is mostly drivers using internal APIs for the subsystem they're exposed in.

> isn't it funny that you chose to contrast systemd with behemoth reimplementing everything in its sight, including its implementation language?

It's cruft from C++03 days. I agree they should deprecate it more heavily now.

Also it's an example of a large project with saner engineering practices. Somehow I managed to use qtbase without being obliged to pull qtmultimedia, qtquick, qtwebkit, or plenty of other stuff. There's a healthy separation between them.

I suggest you familiarize yourself with project management and sane engineering practices before insulting me.

[aht0]

Principal design nuances of systemd which specifically have been causing problems for people:
-Hardcoded compile-time "FallbackDNS", which many distros have simply set to 8.8.8.8
-systemd-resolved does treat all configured DNS servers as equivalents while in real life they may very well not be so. Despite RFC's Poettering keeps pointing at and closing the requests for a change in behaviour. For example: When you do have your own company's DNS with a whole bunch of custom settings including the LAN, having systemd-resolved suddenly jump over to 8.8.8.8 breaks things.
-systemd-resolved switches between these DNS servers more or less randomly. Anyway, it's supposed to try another when it's failing to connect it's current DNS server. It does not.

You of course won't have anything to complain about it when public DNS suffices for configuration. Which are most home users with a PC.

Folks who would now recommend to recompile systems-resolved with different FallbackDNS configured, switching a distro or anything other along the lines - please sit on something pointy and long..

[oiaohm]

While NT 3.5 didn't have service restart and dependencies but they implemented that sometime later (don't really remember if it was in Windows 2000 or if it came later) but it's definitely there now because I use it for the unfortunate customers of ours that refuse to use anything other than Windows.

Kind of right and wrong. NT 3.5 did not send a message to service saying restart. You did by management interface a restart command in NT 3.5 did stop followed by start so a true restart. In newer versions of Windows they added the restart message that can be sent to services that is like reload where part/none of the service binary might be reloaded but the complete thing may not be restarted. This is part of what I am talking about with latter versions getting broken and worse miss leading on what it in fact doing.

While your second point is probably correct (I've never used fork on Windows), it's quite simple to completely hang the shutdown process of a service indefinably and also in such a way that you cannot even shut it down via the Task Manager since you can set the timeout to infinite in your application and then refuse to send the SERVICE_STOPPED or even not setting the SERVICE_ACCEPT_STOP flag when you init your system service..

taskkill /f /pid [PID] Windows graphical Task Manager does not in fact provide everything. Windows command line to control Windows Kernel Internal task manager there is not a process you cannot kill as long as you are running at the right user. NT 3.5 it was possible to log into System and give order to service management to use the taskkill /f on everything in a service. Microsoft removed ability to set force on service management in NT 4.0 and also removed the path to normally log into System. Yes System is Windows NT equal to Root user. Its one of the problem for those coming from Windows to Linux. Administrator in Windows is not Root user and this is why you find you hands strangely tied. Yes attempt to use a graphical task manager under Linux you can run into exactly the same problem with a sudo user.

My reasons for claiming that it's worse then even sysv is #1 that you have to add code to your application in order to run as a service since it does not call the normal main(), #2 that Microsoft never released any tool to add or remove services so every application had to write their own install-part and #3 that you could hardly edit anything about a service using the GUI so you had to instead dive deep into the not so lovely registry.

Point 1 I kind of agree with. Its a pain. Microsoft used wmain for windowed applications as well.
Point 2. There is no proper install or removal tool for sysvinit either. Having to set run order number right in sysvinit made third parties adding services or removing services screw it up so many times in their own custom installers under Linux/Unix it was not funny. This is area where windows service management and Linux service management could do better.
Point 3 about having to leave GUI tools and go into registry is not much better than sysvinit having to dive into directories all the time.

So really the features in favour of the NT 3.5 service manager out number the features against NT 3.5 service manager. Its a hard reality sysvinit is garbage. Lot of the faults people point at in NT 3.5 service management exist on Linux as well in sysvinit or have failed to notice that Microsoft hid the root/System user lowered Administrator powers and now you cannot do what you need to.

Not to mention the horror that is Windows Event Viewer where you for several years had to write your own resource compiler and where Microsoft tried to badly reimplement GNU gettext(). And until recently there where no built in way to export the logs to text leading to people sending millions of screen shots when trying to show logs...

Latter abomination again. Windows NT 3.5 had so much right. The Event Viewer save to txt file worked in NT 3.5 they stuff it up in latter generations then finally fix it again. This is a repeating problem of Microsoft they get something right in one generation of windows then stuff it up in latter generations sometimes taking over a decade to fix.

[arokh]

Principal design nuances of systemd which specifically have been causing problems for people:
-Hardcoded compile-time "FallbackDNS", which many distros have simply set to 8.8.8.8
-systemd-resolved does treat all configured DNS servers as equivalents while in real life they may very well not be so. Despite RFC's Poettering keeps pointing at and closing the requests for a change in behaviour. For example: When you do have your own company's DNS with a whole bunch of custom settings including the LAN, having systemd-resolved suddenly jump over to 8.8.8.8 breaks things.
-systemd-resolved switches between these DNS servers more or less randomly. Anyway, it's supposed to try another when it's failing to connect it's current DNS server. It does not.

You of course won't have anything to complain about it when public DNS suffices for configuration. Which are most home users with a PC.

Folks who would now recommend to recompile systems-resolved with different FallbackDNS configured, switching a distro or anything other along the lines - please sit on something pointy and long..

There's no design issue, there's only you being an idiot who is incapable of understanding (and learning) how software works. You are pointing at a google search and claiming that is some kind of proof of your moronic statements. I can't imagine that any company would want to hire you to maintain their DNS, so I think you can just relax.

[aht0]

There's no design issue, there's only you being an idiot who is incapable of understanding (and learning) how software works. You are pointing at a google search and claiming that is some kind of proof of your moronic statements. I can't imagine that any company would want to hire you to maintain their DNS, so I think you can just relax.

You sound like Pawlerson's second or third account, so it makes you pointless troll to waste time on. Just insults.

Claim that intentional design nuances rendering software unusable to a certain segment of end users is not "design issue" is ludicrous.