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The Maß Is Empty: Munich Switching Back To Windows After ~14 Years With Linux

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  • #21
    Well, Windows can do all that Linux can, can't it? So there is absolutely no reason to use Linux anymore and go for the bigger and greater product </sarcasm>
    Installation instructions for the Linux Subsystem on Windows 10.

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    • #22
      what a sad day for Munich

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      • #23
        Originally posted by treba View Post
        Well, it definitly didn't have anything to do with microsoft moving their german head quarter to munich last year....
        It seems that they moved from Unterschleißheim to Schwabing. They both belong to the same district (Munich). I don't know anything about how the German municipalities economics work, but I suppose that if they are in the same district then it doesn't make any difference. Right?
        I mean, it will only hurt the Unterschleißheim local economy and boost the Schwabing local economy, but not the district. Also, the employees will see their salary cut off because they will either have to move to a more expensive area or commute larger distances.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Britoid View Post
          I doubt there's any "bribery". In an enterprise environment when dealing with 100s, if not 1000s of machines, Windows is still easier to manage than Linux.

          I'm a Linux user, and still have ended up using Active Directory + Windows over anything Linux when needing to manage many computers. Group policy, sso, software management, automated driver installation, roaming profiles, folder redirection, shared printers etc > anything Linux has.

          Oh, running a bunch of shell scripts on login/boot to try replicate the above is not a proper solution.
          Sorry, but I beg to differ here.

          I come from this Windows sysadmin world myself, and I don't consider Windows Server + AD a "proper" solution. It's needlessly over-complicated to set-up, over-crowded with option-dialog pop-ups and so called "wizards" for clicking through, that ask unneeded questions. Not sysadmin-friendly at all.

          What is sysadmin friendly, for me, is being able to automate server / workstation set-ups and configuration changes via scripts and simple configuration files in /etc or the user's /home we can maintain in one central GIT location, see changes, and adjust them exactly to our needs; because every company is different, and has different needs.

          There is just no substitute for the flexibility AND simplicity for me.

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          • #25
            The funny thing is that it is probably legally and socially risky to question this move from within München, even though it is likely a straightforward result of corruption.

            It's not about their (relatively small) network of endpoints, but about continuing to secure Windows' future in government offices, well after private companies abandon it. This one small 14 year sales failure for Microsoft is responsible for a lot of doubt in their sales promises, and going forward, that will be worth a lot to them.
            Last edited by microcode; 24 November 2017, 10:26 AM.

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            • #26
              The sad thing is, München is a only part of a much bigger problem:

              http://www.investigate-europe.eu/en/...-on-microsoft/

              Almost all governments in Europe are dependant (and more important, become increasingly dependant) of Microsoft.
              It's pattern from local authority to EU authority.

              The problem is, politicans here don't understand that they give money (from taxes) and data (from citizens and governments) into the hand of one single non-EU corporation, that lives from vendor lock-in. It's insane...Maybe other countries (outside the EU) are more clever.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Leopard View Post
                Because of LibreOffice i guess.

                Did you ever try opening some pptx files on Libre? It is a mess.

                Main reason of Windows usage is not Windows itself , their solutions just dominating the market and became standart.

                They're also serving Microsoft Office for MacOS but they're doing it without worries because people can't put MacOS on their existing machines easily.

                However , if they do the same thing for Linux ( which they won't ) why office users want to pay for Windows itself too? They will just put a Linux distro and buy Ms Office for Linux.
                If Libreoffice is developed in the same pace as it was in the recent years, there won't be many compatibility issues between MS Office and Libreoffice left.
                At least with docx and xslx files. Powerpoint is another thing, which is horrible, even in Office.
                For Outlook good corporative alternatives exist already (which are not for free).

                I still can't understand how people can like MS Office, it's such a mess, performance-wise and usability-wise and with Office 2016 things got worse...

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                • #28
                  "Munich was going back in bed with Microsoft"

                  The butthurt is strong with this one. An unbiased statement would be like "Munich goes from Linux' bed to Microsoft's". Also, how has your Macbook been working out for ya, Michael? I guess you're going to bed with Apple, then? What the hell. You can require manual approval on my comments, won't make you less of a hypocrite.

                  "Munich having been a shining example of open-source/Linux adoption within city governments for years"

                  Shining example for the zealots. But employees pretty much hated every bit of it. Which somehow Phoronix always fails to mention:

                  "Reasons cited were adoption and users being unhappy with the lack of software available for Linux."

                  So yeah, this happens when you make business decisions based on your personal preferences instead of your "company's" needs. It wasn't even clear what problem they were trying to solve.

                  "The reason for the migration was the end of support for Windows NT 4 by Microsoft in late 2003; thus a replacement of it was necessary."

                  Like no sh*t, upgrades are necessary for software? Instead of buying upgrade licenses, they could spend money on rebasing LiMux to newer Ubuntu/Debian releases.

                  Also, "get rid of Microsoft" is not a problem that needs to be solved, that's just personal hatred, not a business goal.

                  It was also unproven and unverifiable that they would actually spare some money with Linux and LibreOffice. They "saved" 12m EUR by switching to OSS, but at the same time, the project cost 14m and took 10 friggin' years of work. Whoa, that's some serious savings indeed.

                  Morale of the story: don't make decisions with emotions. That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by beniwtv View Post

                    Sorry, but I beg to differ here.

                    I come from this Windows sysadmin world myself, and I don't consider Windows Server + AD a "proper" solution. It's needlessly over-complicated to set-up, over-crowded with option-dialog pop-ups and so called "wizards" for clicking through, that ask unneeded questions. Not sysadmin-friendly at all.

                    What is sysadmin friendly, for me, is being able to automate server / workstation set-ups and configuration changes via scripts and simple configuration files in /etc or the user's /home we can maintain in one central GIT location, see changes, and adjust them exactly to our needs; because every company is different, and has different needs.

                    There is just no substitute for the flexibility AND simplicity for me.
                    At work, the Linux group of four people has a massively higher change quota, and a much more lenient license list. Windows admins regularly spend entire days performing tasks that us people on the Linux side do either in a fully automated manner, or with an automated orchestration system.
                    Our setup of Foreman + Puppet + MCollective is powerful enough for us to actively manage many hundreds of servers per person - when necessary, and it could even handle Windows just as well if more of the team started using it.

                    And as it turns out, doing it our way means every single change is available for auditing through git, including rolling back broken changes.
                    The same can't be said about all the GPOs in the AD, meaning we've in fact been tasked with setting up some kind of automated orchestration of AD content with Puppet - or the like - just to be able to allow auditing the changes on there as well.

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                    • #30
                      That's nothing. Microsoft always had direct protection from US Embassy and USA as state, from highest level to bribe any official, to protect their people with foreign citizenships in corruption investigations.

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