Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Devuan 1.0 Makes It To A Release Candidate: Debian Without Systemd

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #51
    Originally posted by dungeon View Post

    It is used by many hundreds, probably thousands by now.... but core devs and community are really deVUAn -Veteran Unix Admins, they are really veterans so mostly 50-60 years old people.

    Obviosly it is not young people who complain here, i guess they are good with whatever
    Then maybe if 50 years from now distros replace systemd with whatever new thing will come around, today's younger users will fork one to keep using Linux in the great systemd tradition ;-)

    Comment


    • #52
      A completely pointless and utterly irrelevant waste of time. If you're going to whine and mope about systemd being the de facto init, do everyone a favour and actually make a competing init system; not just another alt-distro or rebadged sysvinit.

      Comment


      • #53
        Hi Michael,

        thanks for the heads up & fantastic to see Devuan making progress.

        GG :-)

        Comment


        • #54
          Good news, lets hope all the anti-systemd trolls will now reside there and not bother us any longer

          Comment


          • #55
            I'm amazed of how people make systemd a religious issue and anybody saying that systemd is OK is a traitor and enemy of true Linuxness. Or should we better say of UNIX, just that UNIX has been dead for decades now, it got replaced by something better, called Linux. An OS that was, unlike UNIX, ready to change with the times and become easier to use.
            I'm so curious if this abysmal hate for systemd has to do with the age of a person, if they have become inflexible and rigid, unable to accept new necessary improvements and cling to the "wonderful always better old". I'm not 20 anymore myself, I have been using and developing on Linux since 2002, but I find systemd a great idea. I was never in love with the ancient and never really impressive sysvinit, it was more a jumble of scripts, a provisory thing than a professional solution. What I am definitely not is a UNIX admin, I don't cling to the past and just for the record, UNIX principles were in the past violated many times by Linux an it is the reason why the OS has spread around the globe in such a breathtaking way. I'm a person of the future, I welcome reforms where they are bitterly necessary. I know that we will have this silly fight again when we get rid of X11 and replace it with something of this century ;-) I'm absolutely not against Devuan, the Linux philosophy says that freedom is the most important thing and that everybody should be able to use whatever they want, that is why there are already a thousand distros, many of them with very few users, but who cares? If people want to use Devuan and they get a glowing warm feeling in their heart and thing they are going to get to Linux heaven, because they did the RIGHT THING, let them. From what I gathered, there are not many that are really so violently against systemd, it is a tiny minority, so small that they don't even want to show their name (if I correctly remember) which is slightly odd. And there has been much more hate dished out from the systemd enemies than the users of systemd the other way. I have felt that people with this mind set seem to say "you fool, don't you understand? This is the end of Linux, the world will end tomorrow!"
            And yet, nothing happened. The few bugs that pop up make the seemingly feaverish enemies shout out in triumph "I TOLD YOU SO, THERE IT IS!!" and I don't know what how that is different with any other technology: sysvinit was by itself one huge bug, if you are a friend of modern efficient systems that allow parallel start of services.
            And I think that Devuan is important for the ones that absolutely need it, they must know why and it might calm their nerves. We others might leave you guys behind though, we are headed into the future, and reforms are important, Linux still has many things that are truly bad that need fixing. Sadly, for people that love the old stuff, IT is really a tough and ungrateful area, old stuff is always discarded and replaced with better stuff, if you don't keep up, you will be left behind and if you work in the field, nobody is going to hire you anymore because you are stuck in the old times, quaint like a lover of steam engines, but pretty much useless. You have to keep up with the times, and getting old might be a problem here. But rest assured that you will be able to use any old release of Linux, nobody can take that away from you. But please remember that idealism for idealism's sake can never work. Linux has to be useful to users, we all use it to work with it, not gloat or look at code all day long, knowing that WE are doing it THE ONLY RIGHT WAY!

            Comment


            • #56
              First of all good luck to Devuan. That being said... :

              Ok so we now got a systemd flamewar running. Some claim they switched to Windows due to systemd and some claim it eat their data, pets, mother and perhaps even their uncle. I would like to invite all of you who are against systemd to reply to this and tell us exactly what feature you don't like with it and why. Not just the regular "it sucks", "it's from hell" etc... etc.... Please say something like "i hate systemd because it's service files use the .ini style formatting. That causes problems because ...."

              You get the point. So please let us that actually use systemd and are happy with find out what YOU had problems with.
              Last edited by waxhead; 22 April 2017, 05:36 AM. Reason: typos

              http://www.dirtcellar.net

              Comment


              • #57
                By the way, for anybody that thinks that most people are against systemd, consider this: If systemd was such a disaster and causing endless problems, systems not booting etc, worlds ending left and right, the majority would clamor for going back to sysvinit. This has not happened. The truth is that the silent majority, 99% of all people see systemd working fine, see faster starting times and now see finally a startup system in place, one that has STRUCTURE, not just a few old cobbled together shell scripts. I'm among these people. I like systemd, I like innovation and am not against it, systemd might not be perfect, but it is definitely better than what we had before, which is not hard really.
                So you haters might be very loud, but I got a good feeling that there are not that many of you. This is also shown by how late Devuan is, it should have been released 6 or more months ago and I agree with another poster: Why the hell do you just criticise systemd, but are unable to propose or build anything better? This is just destructive criticism, not constructive one. For that reason, I'm sorry to say that nobody will miss you. But I don't want to advocate that you should not have your own distro, if there are many people that can't deal with systemd, Devuan will flourish, but we will see how many people of you can actually improve things or are, as it looks right now, just naysayers.

                Comment


                • #58
                  Originally posted by bnolsen View Post
                  Considering my xubuntu install went from booting in 20-30s to now with systemd taking almost 2 mins I hope this does well...
                  Try it I know one use case where Devuan is faster than systemdfied Jessie, that is 32bit instalation.

                  Systemd is somewhat slow on 32bit Jessie, probably no one care about these anymore... but nope, Devuan one sysv boot is normal fast there

                  Can't claim totally, but i can conclude that systemd seems shit on some arches - it might be good only if you match exactly what Poettering is using
                  Last edited by dungeon; 22 April 2017, 05:53 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #59
                    Originally posted by k1e0x View Post
                    You guys need to realize that systemd was a factor in my decision not to use Linux at all anymore. I don't use it and I don't recommend it to customers. You lost a 20 year Linux veteran over this and I'm not the only one. Your bleeding people to the FreeBSD project because their path forward is simply a better one.
                    I'll just leave this here.

                    Comment


                    • #60
                      Originally posted by Artemis3 View Post

                      And these too, they will all fail, because you say so.
                      If these distributions only vision is to be systemd free, yes they will. If they cater for any real visions or real problems beside systemd-hate, this might change things for them.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X