Devuan 1.0 Makes It To A Release Candidate: Debian Without Systemd

[dungeon]

The sooner that we can all decide on Wayland (mir is dead), and systemd (upstart is dead), the faster that development will happen on all platforms.

Please do no ask anybody to decide on these, as these are pushed things. But no, you also claim that other options are dead, so it looks like remainng ones are normal... so there no even question nor what to decide there

We will lose all the users with that kind of "questions, which are not even questions" representations - that for sure

That is like Debian was asked to decide on: systemd, sysv or upstart. And people immidiately jumped as said, what kind of crap is that as there are other init systems too

But hidden question which only looks like a question was not to anybody to decide even on these three, but just to push systemd there In reality majority of users was against that systemd crap, but it was immidiately force pushed with using various tricks around... so that was not a question at all in the first place.

Should i say that some voters to not say systemd pushers in Debian now works for Red Hat... better just fuck all of them, that is reality

[ldo17]

You guys need to realize that systemd was a factor in my decision not to use Linux at all anymore. I don't use it and I don't recommend it to customers. You lost a 20 year Linux veteran over this and I'm not the only one. Your bleeding people to the FreeBSD project because their path forward is simply a better one.

Feel free to demand your money back.

[Artemis3]

Devuan will try, Devuan will fail.

And these too, they will all fail, because you say so.

[ldo17]

But I would still recommend using something else: The community is really toxic and hostile to any change and only united in their hate of systemd.

So what you are saying is, we have our Republican Party of the Linux world?

[jrch2k8]

That's not a technical problem.

Care to explain this? I'm pretty sure GCC and Clang were used to develop musl so of course they support it.

Statically linked stuff works just fine on a system with non-native libc loader. Nobody wants a system with numerous parallel libc implementations installed. The real problem is compiling broken stuff that assumes glibc. For instance systemd.

chroot, containers, ... not really a problem

1.) yes is technical, Gnu toolset have GNU specific extensions that if not present may present strange behaviour, hence some distros don't wanna deal with that

2.) libc is not a simple library, of course it can compile in the common sense but libcs are part of the low level toolchain and the compiler has to be aware of the libc at bootstrap compilation, additionally syscall, endianess, etc support may vary per implementation, see linux from scratch to understanding it better

3.) is not broken tho, glibc as gcc[this is why clang/icc cannot compile a linux kernel ootb] does have specific extensions outside the standard mostly used by very low level code like the kernel, binutils and systemd, in the case of systemd an argument can be made where in both places it can be fixed but the proper solution is for musl to add the functionality since they are the competing solution.

4.) it may work i agree

[bnolsen]

Considering my xubuntu install went from booting in 20-30s to now with systemd taking almost 2 mins I hope this does well...

[jrch2k8]

Considering my xubuntu install went from booting in 20-30s to now with systemd taking almost 2 mins I hope this does well...

use archlinux mate or opensuse or fedora because if systemd is booting in 2m, my man there is something seriously and i mean seriously wrong with your boot process, probably xubuntu still using a lot of old style init scripts on compat mode or something horrible like that.

i mean even right now with ZFS loading several 2tb pools[2 of them resilvering] , postgresql, mysql, mongo, apache my xeon e3-1231v3 load gdm within 10s, i use ArchLinux and a regular sata 3 SSD transcend nothing too hardcore

[jacob]

These who like OOTB systemd-free are probably happy

Someone said here you can do that on regular Jessie too, and indeed it is possible, but there is a lot of crufts to remove and to maintain these changed packages (and updates of these of course)... so if somebody like someone else to do that for them, from that point this is fine

I agree, just joking. I guess it's the idea of open source at work. I presume that only a minority will be interested in having a no-systemd distro but, in the extreme, even if devuan is only ever used by two people, if it solves their problems, serves them well and is worth for them to invest in developing and maintaining it, then it will be a successful project.

[dungeon]

I agree, just joking. I guess it's the idea of open source at work. I presume that only a minority will be interested in having a no-systemd distro but, in the extreme, even if devuan is only ever used by two people, if it solves their problems, serves them well and is worth for them to invest in developing and maintaining it, then it will be a successful project.

It is used by many hundreds, probably thousands by now.... but core devs and community are really deVUAn -Veteran Unix Admins, they are really veterans so mostly 50-60 years old people.

Obviosly it is not young people who complain here, i guess they are good with whatever

[darkcoder]

You guys need to realize that systemd was a factor in my decision not to use Linux at all anymore. I don't use it and I don't recommend it to customers. You lost a 20 year Linux veteran over this and I'm not the only one. Your bleeding people to the FreeBSD project because their path forward is simply a better one.

Last time I checked there was movement on BSD camp to bring the concept of systemd, but not the current Linux implementations, which due to license and how close is tied to the Linxu kernel.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTg0ODE