Originally posted by Michael_S
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Former Compiz Developer: Free Software Desktop Might Enter A Dark Age
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Originally posted by Vistaus View Post
How do you know that most Ubuntu users prefer KDE/Qt applications? Also, GNOME has good a good video player: gnome-mpv (https://github.com/gnome-mpv/gnome-mpv). IMHO it's stellar. I don't really use music players on my laptop anymore (hurray for streaming music!) but gnome-mpv handles that nicely as well IMHO.
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Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
It's simple: take a look at Ubuntu's application manager and notice some KDE/Qt apps have highest rankings. I didn't hear about gnome-mpv before, but it seems to be very simple like dragonplayer. It seems there's no alternative to VLC or Smplayer.
Also: what do high rankings say about use? One supermarket downtown in my city gets high rankings but most people are going to other supermarkets. So high rankings don't say much.
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Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
Originally posted by dungeon View PostIt tends to be bloat, people with dominant "Keep it Simple, Non-Bloat" metaphore or traditionalists have all rights to hate it. Other apps to support It also introduce dependcy on it, so by the time it also tend to turn off other options, etc...
Some people just hate any sort of bloatware, that is it. Imagine your OS and your apps do exactly what you want, exactly no more and exactly no less. That is hard to imagine to some, as for that you will need to write your OS and all your apps, SystemD goes into entire opposite direction - it strive to be only one and promise that by the time it will eat everything including you
I'm a happy systemd user, but not a fanatic. I've been happy with the Runit init system that's used by Void Linux, among others. I also want to take GNU Shepherd init (formerly called GNU DMD) in GNU Guix Linux for a spin.
And the Gentoo developers do a great job supporting systemd for those that want it and other init systems for those that don't.
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Originally posted by dungeon View PostSome people just hate any sort of bloatware, that is it. Imagine your OS and your apps do exactly what you want, exactly no more and exactly no less. That is hard to imagine to some, as for that you will need to write your OS and all your apps, SystemD goes into entire opposite direction - it strive to be only one and promise that by the time it will eat everything including you
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Originally posted by torsionbar28 View PostYes, absolutely, one of the reasons for lack of corporate desktop adoption (aside from the Microsoft Office monopoly) is the inconsistency of the Linux desktop. Ignoring Windows 10, all Windows PC's had an almost identical user interface and user experience. From Windows 95, through Windows 8 - two decades of desktop UI consistency.
IMO the Linux world ought to adopt a desktop GUI standard interface, something like LSB has done for the filesystem layout. You could use Gnome or KDE or whathaveyou, but it would ship with a standard configuration of UI elements, their locations, their styles, their behaviours, etc. Of course you could customize it however you liked, or switch it to other predefined style/behavior themes, but the default install should be consistent across DE's and across toolkits.
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Originally posted by dungeon View Post
It tends to be bloat, people with dominant "Keep it Simple, Non-Bloat" metaphore or traditionalists have all rights to hate it. Other apps to support It also introduce dependcy on it, so by the time it also tend to turn off other options, etc...
Some people just hate any sort of bloatware, that is it. Imagine your OS and your apps do exactly what you want, exactly no more and exactly no less. That is hard to imagine to some, as for that you will need to write your OS and all your apps, SystemD goes into entire opposite direction - it strive to be only one and promise that by the time it will eat everything including you
To me it is forced shit, same like Gnome was forced by Novell on OpenSUSE by default regardless of their K tradition at the moment where KDE users represented 70% of userbase, but Gnome about 20% Companies like to invest in future and pushing thing around where they see some interests as always
Same like here M.R: Shuttleworth won't invest anymore in Unity, regardless of some people like it as it is, etc... push here, push there and see what would happen
I mean, question is always about functionality and what you want, if you want fully functional system, resource usage of systemd is actually very good, dare i say excelent, for the functionality it provides. Even better, systemd makes it easy to manage those resources, so when some distribution, for example Ubuntu, (not picking on it, using as example) decide to include some services you might not need by default, it is very easy for you to manage it and disable.
When Ubuntu used upstart, Arch used systemd, and that's where i used it for the first time, and it sort of made sense to me, i was thinking like: "yeah, this makes sense, why Ubuntu keeps things complicated for no good reason", but that's just my point of view.
gojul
I wouldn't call it operating system, I think that's "a bit" of strech, it all depends how you define OS. I think that's more of the design choice (GDM etc.), i mean tehre are tons of options tbh, if systemd and X were nto the best option at this time, most distribution would already go to the better ones. X will likely be replaced in about 4 years from now, in Ubuntu terms, default at maybe ~19.10 version.
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Originally posted by Vistaus View Post
And on Windows, where you can choose to develop traditional apps or UWP apps, that's not a problem? I don't see devs moving away from Windows because they can choose between Microsoft's two major toolkits there, so I fail to see why it'd be a problem for them on Linux.
2. Dev resources and users in Windows are much larger than in Linux desktop.
3. In your linux desktop, there might be actually 5 tool different toolkits wasting your CPU/RAM resources: GTK2, GTK3, QT4, QT5, Java.
I like Linux because she is light, consistent, with clear and managed package dependencies.
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Originally posted by enihcam View Post
1. What Win32+UWP try to resolve is different from GTK+QT.
2. Dev resources and users in Windows are much larger than in Linux desktop.
3. In your linux desktop, there might be actually 5 tool different toolkits wasting your CPU/RAM resources: GTK2, GTK3, QT4, QT5, Java.
I like Linux because she is light, consistent, with clear and managed package dependencies.
2 Again: doesn't matter. What matters is that devs want to use what they want to use, whether that's a Linux toolkit or a Windows toolkit or a cross-platform toolkit (Qt, FOX, etc.). And if they can't choose, they'll move to a different platform.
3 I have yet to see a system where so many toolkits are wasting CPU/RAM resources. And believe me, I've seen a whole lot of Linux desktops in the past 6 years. My system, for example, only has, GTK3, Qt5 and FOX (but FOX is extremely light and only for one app: Xfe file manager) to waste my resources.
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Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post...
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