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  • #11
    Originally posted by chithanh View Post
    Firstly, the EU law only applies to the warranty that is mandated by law, and which only affects the seller and not the manufacturer.
    Already said that. I talked of Amazon and sellers. ASUS isn't a seller, Amazon is a seller.

    Also Apple has "graciously given" 2 years of warranty in EU because of these laws. As they are also a seller.

    Any warranty that ASUS offers is voluntary and they can at any time refuse warranty if they think that you do not meet the warranty conditions.
    Which happens way too frequently here, btw. Not just ASUS. There is a reason if the law mandates the warranty on the seller.

    The seller may have a harder time to refuse warranty, but flashing a custom BIOS is such a deep change that I don't think it is impossible.
    The seller and people you talk with to get a refund or a RMA don't usually understand what the item is at all, go figure if they understand what is a BIOS and what "BIOS modification" implies.

    They usually refuse warranty at first because you opened the item's packaging or other obviously fake bullshit (how can I notice that the device is broken and ask for fixing it under warranty if I can't open the packaging?), and if they don't comply on their own it's not trivial to get them to obey even if there is a law.
    In some cases you have to sue the fuckers to get them to comply (which is usually more expensive than accepting the loss of the device, and they know this).

    This is only true within the first six months according to directive 1999/444/EC article 5 paragraph 3.
    No, it goes like this:

    You bring back the device within 6 months, seller MUST change/fix/whatever it, no questions asked (as long as it isn't obvious device misuse that voids the warranty).

    You bring back the device after 6 months but within 2 years, seller CAN refuse but MUST prove that it was your fault. In some cases it's easy (phisical misuse leaves marks), for firmware changes it's very rarely worth finding out, so they don't even try.

    Which is very cool in theory, but isn't guaranteed in practice. Amazon has amazing track record, also many phisical stores have a decent chance of obeying after you went in and shouted hard at someone in charge, web-based sellers, much less.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
      In EU Amazon (or any other seller) cannot refuse that because they need to provide evidence that the issue was caused by the different firmware (because laws).
      Those laws are probably why tech is so expensive in EU. You pay about 20% premium for this "advantage".

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      • #13
        Originally posted by AndyChow View Post
        Those laws are probably why tech is so expensive in EU. You pay about 20% premium for this "advantage".
        No, that's a EU-wide tax (each member state charges roughly the same VAT on imported goods), see EU VAT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...alue_added_tax

        Sellers get shafted from all sides, welcome to EU.
        Last edited by starshipeleven; 07 March 2017, 04:57 PM.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
          No, it goes like this:

          You bring back the device within 6 months, seller MUST change/fix/whatever it, no questions asked (as long as it isn't obvious device misuse that voids the warranty).

          You bring back the device after 6 months but within 2 years, seller CAN refuse but MUST prove that it was your fault. In some cases it's easy (phisical misuse leaves marks), for firmware changes it's very rarely worth finding out, so they don't even try.
          That is incorrect as to what the EU directive says.
          If you bring it within 6 months, then burden of proof that the device wasn't defective and that the problem was caused by the customer is on the seller.
          If you bring it after 6 months, then the burden of proof is on the customer.

          If the seller exchanges/fixes the goods within 6 months no questions asked (even not looking for non-obvious damage), then that is voluntary and more than EU regulations require.
          If after 6 months the seller exchanges/fixes the goods, without the customer providing proof that it wasn't his fault, then that is also voluntary and not required by any EU regulation. Fortunately the courts have usually ruled that prima facie evidence is sufficient here, unless the seller provides stronger proof.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by chithanh View Post
            That is incorrect as to what the EU directive says.
            I have no idea of what you have read, but I'm pretty sure you have read it wrong.


            Article 5
            Time limits
            1. The seller shall be held liable under Article 3 where the lack of conformity becomes apparent within two years as from delivery of the goods.
            ...
            3. Unless proved otherwise, any lack of conformity which becomes apparent within six months of delivery of the goods shall be presumed to have existed at the time of delivery unless this presumption is incompatible with the nature of the goods or the nature of the lack of conformity.



            This is pretty obvious to me.
            If there are issues within 6 months then they have to be fixed regardless (same as issues found at the time of delivery), if there are issues within 2 years it is still the seller's fault so he has to prove that it isn't (but he can actually try to prove it, while within 6 months he cannot).

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            • #16
              AFAIK there is difference to "directive" and "regulation" of EU. "Directive" leaves certain leeways for member states, you might take it as a recommendation targeted to achieve some result or the other without defining exact mechanism. Which means that shit may be slightly or quite different in various member states. Good example: building-construction-related directives. What do you think how much certain old-Europe countries are following them?

              Here you can still fucking forget warranty if your phone has been flashed with a custom firmware. And phone sellers/ISP's etc are guaranteed to check for it, just to get your warranty case off their backs. Does not happen much with other sorts of flashable electronics though, since people are a lot dumber about those.

              And be fucking sure to document the exact state of your device before sending it over to the warranty, and get signatures/stamps to it from the representative of the seller.
              Or you may see claims that "repairmen told us that it was your own fault, defects indicating falling, marks inside indicating water damage" etc. While the device in question had never fallen or seen water. Helps you getting your money back if you have to fucking sue the bastards.

              It's most common with brands/manufacturers who are outsourcing their warranty-repairs to 3-rd-party companies.
              Last edited by aht0; 09 March 2017, 08:49 AM.

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              • #17
                aht0
                Sure, we discuss what EU prescribes to its member countries. Of course individual member countries may have more consumer-friendly laws.

                starshipeleven
                The directive you quoted says precisely what I wrote.
                Broken within 6 months: Goods are presumed to be defective, seller must prove otherwise if he disagrees.
                Broken after 6 months: No such presumption, buyer must prove otherwise if he disagrees (but prima facie evidence is accepted by courts).

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                • #18
                  Out of idle curiosity.. are the "this device has warranty of 2 years, but it's battery 6 months" somehow related to the "broken within 6 months.."? Even if the battery itself is fully built-in and cannot be removed or replaced without first dissassembling the device itself first.

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