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  • #41
    Originally posted by shinger View Post

    I'm sorry but logically speaking, something cannot be branded as a fact, if there is not proof to brand it as a fact.

    So if there is no proof to brand something as a fact or NOT as a fact, then by default you go to basic nature of things. Somebody is born as a male or a female then by default that certain individual is ought to live or practice his/her life according to that.

    Who says this? Religion for a facts tells this, however not only religion says this, also atheism says this. What does atheism say? "Survival of the strongest". By default and from a logical perspective you see that individuals that go against their basic nature, are destined to die off. You could say ..the "bugs" human evolution. A bug is NOT a natural thing.

    So all in all, if you are religious or an atheist on this matter both agree looking at the teachings of both the philosophies.

    Now what do we say about these kind of things? He/she is demanding to live like that, i might object to that because children seeing things that are not natural and THINK it is natural..or with other words teaching the wrong to be right. However under secular law you will harm nobody, so we are living under secular law..you let the individual just live their life.

    In the last couple of years, the whole LGBT-agenda is being pushed and pushed and pushed for people to accept them. This is like me saying, Pizza X YOU MUST EAT AND FIND IT DELICIOUS!!!

    This is a similar case. This guy is demanding people to accept him as how he wants to be accepted if he does not get what he wants, then it i'll cause anarchy among society and community. What i see is a emotional unstable person. When you step in the world of professionalism, you keep your personal problems at home. (Drops the mic)
    I feel like the whole "Drops the mic" thing seems stupid to do on a forum. It's like you're actively trying to be high and mighty.

    Furthermore, the theory of evolution is driven by "bugs" in biology. Sometimes these "bugs" cause more ideal life, sometimes they don't. Does that mean that evolution isn't natural?
    Atheism doesn't say "Survival of the strongest", but rather a branch of science suggests it (note that not all religion conflicts science). Furthermore, strongest implies what would cause those to breed more successfully and last longer to breed again, which technical could be include a trait against their "basic nature" sometimes. As I previously mentioned, if that "bug" ends up to be beneficial, it eventually becomes the new "natural" as you put it.

    Note that I'm not trying to justify anything here, but rather just pointing out the flaw in your reasoning. Plus it's not wise to say on the internet that atheism stands for anything but not believing in god. Atheists on the internet can get quite, uh, frisky.

    Also, even though some LGBT individuals can be dubious, I think the general idea is spreading tolerance. Though I'm not personally an LGBT individual, I can see that some people just want to be accepted to the degree of being a part of the community, not necessarily make everyone think the same way as them (though extreme cases exist). Similar to how I can accept having Muslim friends, even though I do not accept the faith. They don't push it on me, and I don't push my ideals on them; you know, that sort of level of acceptance.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by arakan94 View Post
      What? You seem to have trouble with understanding of text.. He never said that it's genetic trait - only that people with it cannot reproduce so they are "dead end"..
      Good thinking! And then they can't teach it to their children, just like their parents taught it to them. Oh, wait...

      Unless they indoctrinate someone else - then this harmful state of mind can spread. yes it is harmful - by not reproducing, they are hurting our civilization
      Yeah, because if there's one thing planet Earth needs, it's more people.

      What's so hard about this to understand?
      Sorry. I have a difficult time comprehending nonsense.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by Mystro256 View Post

        I feel like the whole "Drops the mic" thing seems stupid to do on a forum. It's like you're actively trying to be high and mighty.

        Furthermore, the theory of evolution is driven by "bugs" in biology. Sometimes these "bugs" cause more ideal life, sometimes they don't. Does that mean that evolution isn't natural?
        Atheism doesn't say "Survival of the strongest", but rather a branch of science suggests it (note that not all religion conflicts science). Furthermore, strongest implies what would cause those to breed more successfully and last longer to breed again, which technical could be include a trait against their "basic nature" sometimes. As I previously mentioned, if that "bug" ends up to be beneficial, it eventually becomes the new "natural" as you put it.

        Note that I'm not trying to justify anything here, but rather just pointing out the flaw in your reasoning. Plus it's not wise to say on the internet that atheism stands for anything but not believing in god. Atheists on the internet can get quite, uh, frisky.

        Also, even though some LGBT individuals can be dubious, I think the general idea is spreading tolerance. Though I'm not personally an LGBT individual, I can see that some people just want to be accepted to the degree of being a part of the community, not necessarily make everyone think the same way as them (though extreme cases exist). Similar to how I can accept having Muslim friends, even though I do not accept the faith. They don't push it on me, and I don't push my ideals on them; you know, that sort of level of acceptance.
        Well why i used the "drops the mic" referrence is, because many people are so emotional now a days. They say something when you disagree by asking them to give logic, rationality and reason backed with evidence if it is possible, they just shut down and no proper and intellectual reply is been given. So if it was "stupid" or improper to refer, my apologizes for that.

        Atheism is not based on SUDDEN changes, more like over a time span of x amount of years. Atheism does not say it explicitly indeed, however the basic conclusion comes down to that. Whatever branch is not able to survive it will die off and another branch will keep on surviving. If we talk about transgenders, this is a sudden change that based on atheistic view, it would die off. Nature in atheistic view as well as scientific view, cannot adapt that fast to these sudden changes. Especially when we are talking about reproductive system of a living being.

        I don't really get your part of "Plus it's not wise to say on the internet that atheism stands for anything but not believing in god". Atheism indeed stands for nothing that includes something of a higher being. If we are talking about those people that say we don't say there is no God, then we are talking about agnosticism, which is not atheism.

        BTW, i am myself a Muslim and in the past i was an atheist. I had a colleague who was gay. He was EXACTLY the opposite of many other gay people. He was gay and was not "broadcasting" it. If you would see him, he looked just like a normal guy. I had very good conversations with him about all kind of things. I liked him more then many other of those fake people working there. So today i might not agree with his view on that particular something, but to be honest, as a human being i would choose him over MANY MANY MANY other Muslims.

        In this case this guy (the developer) he is trying to push it on people, by trying to harm the community because they did not accept him to be a woman. When you force somebody to see you as a female, that is automatically making you accept it, while you do not accept it. Do these people have a difficult life because of this? I am sure of it. But still, just because you see something like that, don't push other people to also go WITH YOU ON THAT.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by arakan94 View Post
          What? You seem to have trouble with understanding of text.. He never said that it's genetic trait - only that people with it cannot reproduce so they are "dead end"..
          Newsflash, human beings can reproduce even if non-straight, because we are usually smart enough to actually know how to make babies even if sexual drive targets the same sex.

          If I had a dime for all the lesbian couples having babies thanks-to/for gay men couples I've seen...

          Now go and stop them! Really you must stop them to save the kittens!

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          • #45
            Originally posted by droidhacker View Post

            Regarding (1).... describing something as a mental illness, is NOT discriminatory. Please don't get yourself confused.

            Fact is that if a transgendered person were to *force* themselves (which I am by no means advocating) into living a heterosexual lifestyle consistent with their *physical birth* gender, then their fertility rates would be consistent with the heterosexual population in general. That means that this... CHARACTERISTIC, is not a physical one. Well at least not in the sense of something like growing a third arm.

            The other thing to be aware of, is that for something to be considered a mental illness, it doesn't need to be something that is learned -- it can actually be related to the physical structure of the brain. There are genetic factors that influence the structure of the brain, mental illness can even be due to injury/trauma. And yes, experiences, mental traumas, etc. can also lead to mental illness.

            In other words, if the brain physically developed in a manner that is not consistent with their physical gender, this *still* qualifies as a mental illness.
            Actually, I don't think that I am the one who is confused here. Whether or not describing something as a mental illness is or is not discriminatory has no bearing on the truth or falsity of my statement that "being a transgender person is no mental illness".

            I also do not understand what you are getting at with the next statement. I think it is uncontroversial that being transgender is in a different class of properties than having a third arm, so there is really no need to establish that. I also do not see how this adds to the discussion. I have a problem with the "illness" part, not the "mental" part.

            I would also never claim that a mental illness is necessarily something that is learned (and why would I?).

            If you want to make some claim along the lines of "A is an instance of B", giving a list of statements like "A has this and that property, which is not mutually exclusive with being an instance B" is not the way to go. You'll find that transgender is not considered a mental illness by the DSM-V and spokespersons of the WHO have also stated that the ICD-10 does not classify it as a mental disorder.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by shinger View Post

              Well why i used the "drops the mic" referrence is, because many people are so emotional now a days. They say something when you disagree by asking them to give logic, rationality and reason backed with evidence if it is possible, they just shut down and no proper and intellectual reply is been given. So if it was "stupid" or improper to refer, my apologizes for that.

              Atheism is not based on SUDDEN changes, more like over a time span of x amount of years. Atheism does not say it explicitly indeed, however the basic conclusion comes down to that. Whatever branch is not able to survive it will die off and another branch will keep on surviving. If we talk about transgenders, this is a sudden change that based on atheistic view, it would die off. Nature in atheistic view as well as scientific view, cannot adapt that fast to these sudden changes. Especially when we are talking about reproductive system of a living being.

              I don't really get your part of "Plus it's not wise to say on the internet that atheism stands for anything but not believing in god". Atheism indeed stands for nothing that includes something of a higher being. If we are talking about those people that say we don't say there is no God, then we are talking about agnosticism, which is not atheism.

              BTW, i am myself a Muslim and in the past i was an atheist. I had a colleague who was gay. He was EXACTLY the opposite of many other gay people. He was gay and was not "broadcasting" it. If you would see him, he looked just like a normal guy. I had very good conversations with him about all kind of things. I liked him more then many other of those fake people working there. So today i might not agree with his view on that particular something, but to be honest, as a human being i would choose him over MANY MANY MANY other Muslims.

              In this case this guy (the developer) he is trying to push it on people, by trying to harm the community because they did not accept him to be a woman. When you force somebody to see you as a female, that is automatically making you accept it, while you do not accept it. Do these people have a difficult life because of this? I am sure of it. But still, just because you see something like that, don't push other people to also go WITH YOU ON THAT.
              I think the issue here is that you're confusing atheism with evolution. For example, the pope is pro-evolution but still believes in intelligent design, i.e. he sees the bible as a narrative. Atheism is the lack of belief in god, while evolution is the theory of the change and progression of species via small biological changes over generations. Most atheists accept evolution as fact, along with many religious people. I have a feeling you're not 100% well versed in this.

              I can't speak for all people, but most LGBT individuals I meet are similar to the gay man you spoke of: nice, good people. I'm not familiar with what happened with this particular trans individual (the developer), but most LGBT individuals I've met just want to be accepted, they don't "force" me to do anything. Usually they just ask I call them by certain terms, such as gendered pronouns or names. I don't see why I would reject calling someone by the names they want to go by. I don't think someone need to "accept them as a woman" to at least be respectful enough to call them by what they wish to be called by.

              Yet again, I'm not familiar with this particular individual or what happened, but most trans individuals I interact with are usually nice people.

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              • #47
                Buahaha SJW = Social justice warriors offended when called social justice warriors. Back to your safe spaces special snowflakes.

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                • #48
                  1. I simply don't care about anyone's identity, be who you are, we have larger problems. I'm sorry if it's your whole world, but nobody cares about your egoist radical atomized individualism. Nobody cares about my identity, because I'm a working class person, they take my surplus production for a fixed wage. I could be a lizard-man, and they wouldn't care, because they'd hate me on material interests alone.


                  2. SJWs are bigoted hate mongers and proven neo-liberalists, their is nothing leftist about them. They only serve themselves as individuals, and they do so at the expense of the working class. Yea, I'm reductionist like that, you don't represent anybody but upper-middle class elites. The term is widely loathed, they'd do anything to separate themselves from the label. Guess what though, every one of those people who wrote "only fascists... yadda yadda, use that term", is proudly an SJW whenever they talk to their professional activist friends.


                  3. SJWs and the Alt-Right are post-modernists, they accept multiple truths. Know what that means? They only consider themselves lying when they don't believe their own lies, you should NEVER trust anything from post-modernists... EVER.

                  We done here? Any takers?

                  For the record, nobody should believe those allegations, we've seen this again and again. It's well known that SJWs target people for their own power. They don't give two craps about working class trans/gay/black/woman... doesn't matter, it's about elite upper middle class atomized individuals. I expect not to be banned, flagged, censored or silenced... not really, because the only thing they hate more than the diverse working class, is Marxists.



                  Last edited by techzilla; 07 January 2017, 01:05 AM.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Mystro256 View Post

                    I think the issue here is that you're confusing atheism with evolution. For example, the pope is pro-evolution but still believes in intelligent design, i.e. he sees the bible as a narrative. Atheism is the lack of belief in god, while evolution is the theory of the change and progression of species via small biological changes over generations. Most atheists accept evolution as fact, along with many religious people. I have a feeling you're not 100% well versed in this.

                    I can't speak for all people, but most LGBT individuals I meet are similar to the gay man you spoke of: nice, good people. I'm not familiar with what happened with this particular trans individual (the developer), but most LGBT individuals I've met just want to be accepted, they don't "force" me to do anything. Usually they just ask I call them by certain terms, such as gendered pronouns or names. I don't see why I would reject calling someone by the names they want to go by. I don't think someone need to "accept them as a woman" to at least be respectful enough to call them by what they wish to be called by.

                    Yet again, I'm not familiar with this particular individual or what happened, but most trans individuals I interact with are usually nice people.
                    You say that i am confused about some matters of evolution and atheism, however i think we abide by different definitions of evolution. To give you an example. As a Muslim, we believe also in intelligent design, however the definition of evolution that i abide by, is the one which apes and human beings have the same ancestor. There is another case of "evolution", although i call it adaptation, not evolution which is for example, human being ADAPTING to it's environment (as an example the pigmentation of the skin darkening to withstand the sun), however still staying a human. Maybe this is the miscommunication between us.

                    The definition again for atheist, i would agree that they don't include a super being whatsoever and see evolution as a fact. So that is why i put atheism in the category of evolution-theory. However saying many religious people see evolution also as a fact, then off course we must look at what THEIR scripture say it is. If we are first talking about evolution as my definition of evolution, then it contradicts the scripture it self. Speaking about the Tora, The New testament and the Qur'an. I might also agree with you on certain facts that now a days people are even contradicting their own believe. Mixing their scripture with their desires of what they want it to be the truth. So a person believing in a God, but not really following what the scripture it self says about the creation of mankind.

                    When somebody wants you to call them a specific pronoun, but it goes against your own philosophy. Do you still go along with their way of things? In my case, i would respectfully NOT want to call them by their female name, but rather use their last name to address them. I have not hurt them and also i don't go against my philosophy. Also i never said those guys are bad guys, many have a soft heart and are very kind. But occasionally there are those rotten apples among them that when they don't get what they want, they act all childish and start trying to get back on people trying to hurt them. This is another way of forcing them to do this or that.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by DanL View Post
                      Good thinking! And then they can't teach it to their children, just like their parents taught it to them. Oh, wait...


                      Yeah, because if there's one thing planet Earth needs, it's more people.


                      Sorry. I have a difficult time comprehending nonsense.
                      Sigh... *facepalm*

                      When someone say that something (some way of thinking) can be indoctrinated, it doesn't mean it's the only way! What are you? 7 years old?

                      And while Earth needs less people, Western Civilization needs more people or it will cease to exist in several generations. Look at Japan for instance - the population is getting older and older and who will work when we are all old? In some countries, birth rate is only about 1.3 children per woman! We - our culture and way of life - are dying out. If we don't change, we'll end up like Roman Empire (and every great civilization before).

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