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The Development Pace Of Systemd Fell Sharply This Year

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  • #21
    If that decline in commits also came with a decline in new features implemented or chosen for future I'd say this was a change for the better. Watching feature creep taking hold of the SystemD project was truly a horrid thing to behold and is now a disaster waiting to happen because of this.

    Seriously, if I had to point towards one thing that I really hate in modern Linux is that the developers rarely have the guts to take appropriate action with an abomination like SystemD by ether starting from scratch, reverting to a much earlier version before things went badly wrong or doing some very significant changes to undo mistakes done during the design of the base architecture. It's not even the first time it's lead developer, Lennart Pottering, has presided over a mess like this. He's previously been the lead developer of PulseAudio, which is most famous for being a non-working replacement for an actually working system, called the Open Sound System, created simply because the OSS was going under a proprietary license and they would have had to create their own fork of it to continue using it.
    Last edited by L_A_G; 30 December 2016, 05:58 PM.

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    • #22
      On a side note you got the history of OSS in Linux wrong and Pulse sucks a little less than ALSA sucks. ALSA is just horrible in comparison to OSS.

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      • #23
        Yes because OSS is actively developed and works so well.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
          He's previously been the lead developer of PulseAudio, which is most famous for being a non-working replacement for an actually working system, called the Open Sound System, created simply because the OSS was going under a proprietary license and they would have had to create their own fork of it to continue using it.
          That was the reason for the birth of ALSA not PA.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
            Seriously, if I had to point towards one thing that I really hate in modern Linux is that the developers rarely have the guts to take appropriate action with an abomination like SystemD by ether starting from scratch, reverting to a much earlier version before things went badly wrong or doing some very significant changes to undo mistakes done during the design of the base architecture.
            Do you think it could be that, rather than not having guts, they might simply not agree with you? Afterall, it wasn't just one person who caused SystemD to spread throughout the Linux world - it was all the people who have contributed to the project itself, all the people who worked to get it into Fedora, into SuSe, into Debian...

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            • #26
              Originally posted by pal666 View Post
              because people interested in everything else are posting on forums instead of sending patches
              Or it could be that these people complaining don't have the skills necessary to fix the issue. You know? There's one guy in my town who uses Windows 2000 on an old IBM Thinkpad T30. He can't code, he doesn't know about the architecture of Windows, Linux or any other OS, but he's smarter than me. He speaks 20 languages, including ones that are endangered. Yet you and others would berate him for having poor computer literacy. That's not how this shit works. There's a lot to separate the developer from the user and vice-versa. You can't just expect people to up and learn C and start submitting patches because you lack a better retort to their criticism. C'mon, that's kindergarten level for crying out loud.

              Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
              Doing better than systemd is impossible.
              I hope for the sake of humanity you're being sarcastic.

              Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
              If that decline in commits also came with a decline in new features implemented or chosen for future I'd say this was a change for the better. Watching feature creep taking hold of the SystemD project was truly a horrid thing to behold and is now a disaster waiting to happen because of this.

              Seriously, if I had to point towards one thing that I really hate in modern Linux is that the developers rarely have the guts to take appropriate action with an abomination like SystemD by ether starting from scratch, reverting to a much earlier version before things went badly wrong or doing some very significant changes to undo mistakes done during the design of the base architecture. It's not even the first time it's lead developer, Lennart Pottering, has presided over a mess like this. He's previously been the lead developer of PulseAudio, which is most famous for being a non-working replacement for an actually working system, called the Open Sound System, created simply because the OSS was going under a proprietary license and they would have had to create their own fork of it to continue using it.
              Originally posted by geearf View Post
              That was the reason for the birth of ALSA not PA.
              Yeah to correct a few things here ALSA is a much more primitive sound system compared to OSS - OSS lacks blocking I/O for the sound driver which results in ALSA's inability to handle multiple sound inputs properly. Some may disagree with the implementation, but it works - which is more than can be said for your typical ALSA/PA stack. PA consistently fails to fix the shortcomings of ALSA and ALSA continues to be a serious detriment to the Linux kernel in the sound department. One thing that can be said about both the Windows Audio system and CoreAudio, used by MacOS, is that they're generally pretty mature and capable of handling most demands of sound development. While Linux may have missed the desktop train back in the 1990s with its inferior establishment back then, that's no excuse to settle for PA and ALSA.

              Originally posted by Delgarde View Post
              Do you think it could be that, rather than not having guts, they might simply not agree with you? Afterall, it wasn't just one person who caused SystemD to spread throughout the Linux world - it was all the people who have contributed to the project itself, all the people who worked to get it into Fedora, into SuSe, into Debian...
              No, it wasn't but it was an engineered effort by RedHat to bring Linux under their thumb, hence why Canonical put up such a fuss with adopting systemd. It was a multi lateral effort that involved creeping systemd's scope to scoop up projects like ConsoleKit, udev, etc. to lock out the stragglers from new features. It ended up strangling the community until they gave up and gave in to the bullying.

              It's why I gave up and divested as much of my infra from Linux as possible. Fuck everyone that sat idly and let this happen. I no longer recommend Linux for my customers unless they absolutely need some bullshit like ORACLE - and I've managed to convert a few from that.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by TeamBlackFox View Post
                ....
                Some people never learn even with publicly written documents in front of them. *sigh*

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by birdie
                  Who's gonna bet what Lennard will f*ck up next?
                  PulseAudio came and i can forget about fiddling with innards in order to get sound work properly.
                  SystemD came and i can easily write complex and flexible services that just work.

                  You people are damn high...

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Mangix View Post
                    Yes because OSS is actively developed and works so well.
                    As actively or slightly more so than ALSA (no joke).

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Duve View Post

                      For the moment, I don't really see anything in the land of Linux that will supplant systemd.
                      Not for the many benefits that it does give the user, and I get the feeling that anything that attempts to supplant it will likely have to take that into consideration.
                      I honestly doubt that one will materialize until it is likely that they can replicate most (if not all) of those said benefits.
                      The only issue I have with Systemd is binary logs.

                      As it's pantomime* season how appropriate that we have a Systemd article, nothing like a Systemd pantomime villain to get the audience going........ behind you !

                      *For US readers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantomime

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