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It Looks Like AMDGPU DC (DAL) Will Not Be Accepted In The Linux Kernel

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  • #41
    Originally posted by GruenSein View Post
    This is pretty sad. Whatever peoples' opinions towards this issue are it highlights one thing: even a relatively big company that has arguably put a lot of effort into Linux and open source drivers is having trouble to get large state of the art code merged. While I understand that a large piece of software such as the graphics stack and the kernel need to adhere to a fixed set of conventions, I am leaning somewhat towards AMDs point of view. It is simply wasteful to develop the same display code twice so a thin layer which connects all the real functionality to the OS-specifics seems reasonable to me. If that is not allowed, we will see a NVIDIA-like situation for AMD as well. NV have a great closed source driver that works across all platforms but it's not open source and most likely, it is full of abstractions. Nouveau on the other hand cannot benefit from anything in there so they are lagging behind. I fear, AMD's attempt to be very open source friendly will end up the same. Maybe, it is time to think about a stable abstraction within the Linux kernel which can be targeted by drivers.
    A large company which has a number of highly skilled experienced kernel developers on their staff, who were well aware of the upstream position. Take from that what you will.

    I also look forward to hearing the plans for stable abstractions proposed on linux-kernel.

    Dave.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by dungeon View Post
      I guess on this point that DAL (i wouldn't call that AC nor DC, when it is DAL) is not high priority for AMD , opensource driver customers seems don't wanna HDMI 2.0, HDMI Audio, FreeSync... and that Michael's Hawaii which fail on open is still not high priority

      Soon people would be better to forget this year and happy new year What about APUs with PRO bridgman? Those still point out to unbreakable FGLRX year later

      Happy 2020.
      AFAIK we still have not been able to duplicate what Michael is seeing on Hawaii. I think we are going to have to either swap cards with him or remote into his system to find out what is going on.

      I don't understand your comment about open source driver customers not wanting features, can you reword ?

      I don't believe APUs are officially supported with AMDGPU-PRO at this point (aiming more at dGPU) but we probably need to make a clearer statement re: recommendations for systems with APU+dGPU, particularly now that we have SI support (since so many of the dGPUs in laptops are low-end SI).

      I run the all-open stack on mine, for what it's worth, but the dGPU is slower than the APU so I represent a fairly simple use case.
      Last edited by bridgman; 12-09-2016, 02:22 AM.

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      • #43
        I mean it _seems_

        Reading bugzilla, seems Marek nailed 9 year old bug and making TF2 stable finnaly. Michael should advertise End of PITA - that takes only one year to be found

        https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93649#c64
        Last edited by dungeon; 12-09-2016, 02:48 AM.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by debianxfce

          What rules, linux kernel is chaotic. Just look the Nouveau driver. DAL is under compilation flag, so Dave and his fans can flag it out instead of blocking it totally.

          Communists wants you to work and Redhat really cause extra work to everyone. Dave wants that amd should have separate code for linux and windows. When installing Debian, you need to remove pulseaudio and avoid gnome stuff when you can.
          1. You're overusing the "Communist" label to the point where it has no meaning, whatsoever.
          2. Aren'T you from China or Russia? Fuck off, mate!

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          • #45
            Originally posted by airlied View Post
            A large company which has a number of highly skilled experienced kernel developers on their staff, who were well aware of the upstream position.
            Hi Dave,
            I perfectly understand your position as a maintainer, and now we are all aware of your "no" position However as Bridgman suggests, Harry was probably seeking more detailed comments than that. Could you possibly offer AMD some advise for how to change DC to the desirable form and maybe a minimum threshold to achieve in that direction before you would accept a merge of the code?
            Being blunt has the benefit of getting everyones attention, so now is probably a good time to take advantage on that attention

            Cheers

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            • #46
              Originally posted by airlied View Post

              A large company which has a number of highly skilled experienced kernel developers on their staff, who were well aware of the upstream position. Take from that what you will.

              I also look forward to hearing the plans for stable abstractions proposed on linux-kernel.

              Dave.
              No need to get all passive aggressive on me. As I said in the original post, I do understand your stance on the matter. All I am saying is that there is no reason to write good code twice - no matter how many skilled programmers are available. Then I gave an example of what might happen, if there is no way to find some common ground between closed and open source drivers (Nouveau). BTW I am pretty sure, the nouveau-guys are pretty skilled as well. They just have to keep reinventing the wheel giving them a hard time. Finding a reasonable way to make use cross-platform code seems like a good goal to me, especially giventhat most of the GPU-market takes place on Windows.

              Also, if some common abstraction was to be found, I am by no means qualified to come up with it. If anyone, it should probably be you due to your experience and qualification. I am relatively pessimistic that this will ever happen, though. The past of certain drivers requiring outdated kernels to work can also be seen as an argument pointing in this direction.

              Anyway, I do appreciate your work on all of this, in case this didn't come across in my original post. Peace

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              • #47
                It must be tough for both Dave and the Amd kernel team.
                I hope the Amd team can find a solution that makes everyone happy.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                  I don't believe APUs are officially supported with AMDGPU-PRO at this point...
                  Hm on mine Kabini APU (desktop one, Athlon 5350), PRO worked since 9 month ago or something like that, basically it worked on any point since CIK was introduced. Of course if you wanna not to advertise what works, that is your choice

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                  • #49
                    Nvidia, smart company, ignores stupid politics of kernel devs and gives users best drivers and maximizing limited resources by not reinventing the wheel.

                    AMD, dumb company, gives up everything and still gets treated like dirt by kernel devs and forced to reinvent the wheel.

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                    • #50
                      I love a bit of drama to move things along. I'm sure you guys will figure out a good solution that works for all.

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