Originally posted by 1Samildanach
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Originally posted by dimko View PostIn Ukrain was was not started by Russians.
Same as in NAM.
Same as in Second World War.
Second world war started silly, but then it went around rest of world.
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Originally posted by nomadewolf View Post
Sorry, but you make no sense.
I also said:
How can i say that murica fought battles, but had nothing to do with it?
They also used napalm, rockets, choppas, planes, grenades, destroyers, aircraft carriers and machineguns.
I hope i not 'deying' anything else... (rolls eyes)
All i meant to clarify was that NAM wasn't started by Murica. But i learned something at least. In my mind, the napalm had been the worst of it. (not deying Hiroshima and Nagasaki also...)
Just saying.
In Ukrain was was not started by Russians.
Same as in NAM.
Same as in Second World War.
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Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostThese were mostly a strong message to Japan.
Japanese were clearly losing, but were also stubborn as fuck, and needed something very powerful to change their minds and stop wasting everyone's (and their own) men and resources.
Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostIf they actually targeted serous cities the death toll would have been various orders of magnitude worse than the estimated 150-250k people for Hiroshima/Nagasaki combined, and most people wouldn't even have died of direct effects of the nuke, but due to collapse of the Japanese nation.
Really, the bigger issues for nuke bombers were jet streams (high-speed winds in the high atmosphere) that were pushing them off course. Nagasaki was chosen because the bomber went ridiculously off-course due to unforseen jet streams pushing it too far from its intended target.
Fun fact: they did firebomb hard Tokio though (to destroy industries mostly), doing more than 100k causalities (probably around the same of both atomic bombs combined).
Present day Japanese are pretty friendly, courteous and decent folk. I doubt they would be the even close to being such if they did not have to go through losing the war. Same applies to Germans.
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Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostThese were mostly a strong message to Japan.
Japanese were clearly losing, but were also stubborn as fuck, and needed something very powerful to change their minds and stop wasting everyone's (and their own) men and resources.
Murica bombed Japan because they were in a hurry. Still doesn't justify it...
Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostI'm saying "strong message" as the USA always had blatant air superiority, and by the end of the war it was even more one-sided.
Japan planes were shitty in general, US atomic bombers could simply stay so far up in the atmosphere to be simply out of reach.
Their atomic bombers could have dropped nukes wherever, but they didn't target large cities like for example Tokio.
Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostIf they actually targeted serous cities the death toll would have been various orders of magnitude worse than the estimated 150-250k people for Hiroshima/Nagasaki combined, and most people wouldn't even have died of direct effects of the nuke, but due to collapse of the Japanese nation.
Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostReally, the bigger issues for nuke bombers were jet streams (high-speed winds in the high atmosphere) that were pushing them off course. Nagasaki was chosen because the bomber went ridiculously off-course due to unforseen jet streams pushing it too far from its intended target.Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostFun fact: they did firebomb hard Tokio though (to destroy industries mostly), doing more than 100k causalities (probably around the same of both atomic bombs combined).
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Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostThey were forced to live in shitty conditions like average for concentration camps, sure they weren't getting exterminated but the fact worth pointing out was that US did concentration camps on their own citizens for no real good reason apart "they have japanese ancestry", so go figure how many fucks they gave about japanese people abroad.
I did not check this thread for some time but I still can't believe it appears to be the most popular topic in the whole effin' forum..
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Originally posted by 1Samildanach View PostTo be fair, they were concentration camps in the sense that they kept a population in a specific (and controlled) place. There wasn't the extermination or forced labour we now associate with the term "concentration camp".
Still a dick move, but not an evil one.
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Originally posted by starshipeleven View Postfixed.
Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post*cough*concentration camps for asian/japanese-looking US citizens*cough*
Still a dick move, but not an evil one.
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Originally posted by 1Samildanach View PostAt the time, they were reaching out to the USSR -which was blazing through them on the continent, and would've been on their shores in short order- to annex them to the great and glorious USSR.
Really, I'm not saying the US acted out of good heart (they didn't). I just stated the fact that if they didn't it would have been much worse.
Americans had little concern for Japanese lives
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Oh, and the Americans had little concern for Japanese lives (I mean, calling 'em racist is really just a statement of fact). The value they placed on Soviet lives was pretty much solely dependant on the usefulness of said Soviets.
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